diatomée calcinée

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diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:25 pm

Hello,

I just found the calcined diatomaceous earth (litter). Apparently very toxic to humans, do you have any information about its toxicity? someone uses it here? scratch

Thank you

p@scal
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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  RichLewis on Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:11 pm

I use diatomeceous clay for my trees (in the UK). It's sold as cat litter in the UK; 'Tesco's lightweight cat litter' and 'sophisticat pink' ar kinds I use. Toxic to humans? I certainly hope not! Can you post a picture of it?

check this out:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm

Cheers




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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  RHamers on Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:24 pm

It's already available in a form ready to use for horticulture purposes. No parfume, no harm for plants or humans, no toxics. Frost proof and re-usable.
for more info see link: Moler/terramol/biozorb
greetings rammon

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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:01 pm

No, I speak of diatomaceous earth (ash), no diatomaceous earth apparently it's something different.

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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:08 pm

CSST - Service du répertoire toxicologique [Page d'accueil] [Lexique] [Produits]
Tout détailler Tout condenser Toutes les informations disponibles sont affichées. Seules les informations de base sont affichées.

Terre de diatomées calcinée
Numéro CAS : 51109-72-9

Identification
Hygiène et sécurité
Prévention
Propriétés toxicologiques
Premiers secours
Réglementation




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Identification


Principaux synonymes


Noms français :
Terre de diatomées calcinée
TERRE DE DIATOMEES CALCINEE
Terre de diatomées calcinée
Noms anglais :
Calcined diatomaceous earth
Calcined diatomaceous silica

Commentaires


Ce produit contient de la silice cristalline : 10 à 20% de cristobalite et 1 à 8% de quartz.

Utilisation et sources d'émission


Agent de filtration
Hygiène et sécurité
Apparence Mise à jour : 1990-04-07


Solide rose pâle

Propriétés physiques Mise à jour : 1990-04-07

État physique : Solide
Solubilité dans l'eau : Insoluble
Tension de vapeur : Négligeable



Inflammabilité et explosibilité Mise à jour : 1994-05-15


Inflammabilité
Ce produit est ininflammable.
Explosibilité
Ce produit n'est pas explosif



Données sur les risques d'incendie Mise à jour : 1994-05-15

Point d'éclair : Sans objet
T° d'auto-ignition : Sans objet
Limite inférieure d'explosibilité : Sans objet
Limite supérieure d'explosibilité : Sans objet

Techniques et moyens d'extinction Mise à jour : 1994-05-15


Moyens d'extinction
Informations supplémentaires: Utiliser tous moyens d'extinction convenant aux matières environnantes.
Techniques spéciales
Porter un appareil respiratoire autonome.


Échantillonnage et surveillance biologique 1 Mise à jour : 2000-02-10


Échantillonnage des contaminants de l'air
Présentement, l'IRSST n'a pas de méthode d'analyse pour ce contaminant.

Prévention
Réactivité Mise à jour : 1994-05-15


Stabilité
Aucune donnée
Incompatibilité
Ce produit est incompatible avec ces substances: L'acide fluorhydrique; certains composés fluorés tels que le fluor, le trifluorure de brome et l'oxyfluorure de sélénium.

Produits de décomposition
Information non disponible



Manipulation Mise à jour : 1990-04-07


Ventiler adéquatement sinon porter un appareil respiratoire approprié.
Porter un appareil de protection des yeux.

Entreposage Mise à jour : 1990-04-07


Conserver dans un récipient hermétique placé dans un endroit bien ventilé.

Fuites Mise à jour : 1990-04-07


Ramasser les déchets et mettre dans un contenant hermétique.


Déchets Mise à jour : 1990-04-07


Consulter le bureau régional du ministère de l'environnement.

Propriétés toxicologiques
Absorption Mise à jour : 1996-12-18


Ce produit est absorbé par les voies respiratoires.

Effets chroniques Mise à jour : 1996-12-18


Pneumoconiose (la prévalence et la gravité semble en relation avec la quantité de cristobalite présente et la durée de l'exposition): fibrose interstitielle diffuse nodulaire et/ou linéaire, habituellement asymptomatique. Cependant on peut rencontrer une dyspnée à l'effort ou dans les cas plus graves, une dyspnée invalidante.

Effets sur le développement Mise à jour : 1996-12-19


Aucune donnée concernant le développement prénatal n'a été trouvée dans les sources documentaires consultées.

Effets cancérogènes Mise à jour : 1996-12-19


Aucune donnée concernant un effet cancérogène n'a été trouvée dans les sources documentaires consultées.

Effets mutagènes Mise à jour : 1996-12-19


Aucune donnée concernant un effet mutagène in vivo ou in vitro sur des cellules de mammifères n'a été trouvée dans les sources documentaires consultées.

Premiers secours Mise à jour : 1990-04-07


En cas d'inhalation des vapeurs ou des poussières, amener la personne dans un endroit aéré. Consulter un médecin.
Rincer abondamment les yeux avec de l'eau.

Réglementation
Règlement sur la santé et la sécurité du travail (RSST) 2


Valeurs d'exposition admissibles des contaminants de l'air


Commentaires
Une réglementation spécifique s'applique pour la silice cristalline: cristobalite et quartz. Consulter l'annexe A du règlement sur la qualité du milieu de travail.(RQMT, S-2.1,R15).


Système d'information sur les matières dangereuses utilisées au travail (SIMDUT)


Classification selon le SIMDUT Mise à jour : 2005-06-13





D2A Matière très toxique ayant d'autres effets toxiques

mélange non testé pouvant contenir au moins 0,1 % d'un cancérogène (cristobalite); mélange non testé pouvant contenir au moins1,0 % d'un produit causant de la toxicité chronique (cristobalite)

Références

1. Direction des opérations, Guide d'échantillonnage des contaminants de l'air en milieu de travail. Études et recherches / Guide technique, 8ème éd. revue et mise à jour. Montréal : IRSST. (2005). T-06. [MO-220007] http://www.irsst.qc.ca
http://www.irsst.qc.ca/files/documents/PubIRSST/t-06.pdf
2. Règlement sur la santé et la sécurité du travail [S-2.1, r.19.01]. Québec : Éditeur officiel du Québec. (2007). [RJ-510071] http://www.csst.qc.ca/lois_reglements_normes_politiques/acces_lois_reglements.htm

Autres sources d'information

Mark, H.F., Grayson, M. et Eckroth, D., Kirk-Othmer encyclopedia of chemical technology. 3rd ed. New York : Wiley. (1978-84). [RT-423004]
Proctor, N.H., Hughes, J.P et Fishman, M.L., Chemical hazards of the workplace. 2nd ed. Philadelphia, Penn. : J.B. Lippincott. (1988). [RM-214010]
International Labour Office, Encyclopaedia of occupational health and safety : A-K. Vol. 1, 3rd ed. Geneva : ILO. (1983).
Seaton, A. et al., The toxic effect of silica. Edimbourg : Institute of Occupational Medecine. (1987). [MO-011543]
TRAVAIL ET SECURITE, NOV. 1986, P. 595-598 [AP-014879]
SCANDINAVIAN JOURNAL OF RESPIRATORY DISEASES, VOL. 59, NO. 4, (1978), P. 216-221 [AP-123863]
American Industrial Hygiene Association Journal, VOL. 39, (1978), P. 418-421 [AP-122570]
Archives of Environmental Health, VOL. 38, NO.4, (1983), P. 197-204 [AP-123769]
Gross, P. et al., «The pulmonary effects of synthetic silicates derived from diatomaceous earth.» Archives of Industrial Health. Vol. 16, p. 317-325. (1959). [AP-026954]
British Journal of Industrial Medicine, VOL. 5 (1948), P. 148-160 [AP-003668]
Journal of Occupational Medicine, VOL. 26, NO. 6, (1984), P. 456-460 [AP-003404]
Journal of Occupational Medicine, VOL. 19, NO. 8, (1977), P. 563-566 [AP-123772]
INFOGRAMS CHIMIQUES : SILICES NON CRISTALLINES ET SILICES CRISTALLINES, HAMILTON : CENTRE CANADIEN D'HYGIENE ET DE SECURITE AU TRAVAIL
EFFETS OF DIATOMACEOUS EARTH ON HUMAN HEALTH, BERKELEY : EQUITABLE ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH INC., 1977 [MO-023449]
IARC Working Group on the Evaluation of Carcinogenic Risks of Chemical to Humans, Silica and some silicates. IARC monographs on the evaluation of carcinogenic risks, Vol. 42. Lyon : International Agency for Research on Cancer. (1987). [MO-010292] http://www.iarc.fr
American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists, Documentation of the threshold limit values and biological exposure indices / Documentation of TLV's and BEI's. 6th ed. Cincinnati, Ohio : ACGIH. (1991-2000). Publication 0206. [RM-514008] http://www.acgih.org
Parkes, W.R., Occupational lung disorders. 2ème éd. London [Toronto] : Butterworths. (1982). [RM-215001]

La cote entre [ ] provient de la banque ISST du Centre de documentation de la CSST.



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p@scal
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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:50 pm

Many/most things can be toxic if misused, and we are in an age where business/governments/special interest groups seem to declare anything and everything toxic.

Bullets are toxic, not because you get shot, but because they are made of lead.

HOWEVER, fine particles of diatomaceous earth would be harmful to the lungs if breathed in. After all it is ground up coral and used because it is course and has sharp edges.

If you use a product such as this you must avoid the dust and keep it moist. Or wear a mask.

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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  DreadyKGB on Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:30 am

I second Billy's comment about the dust being dangerous. Diatomaceous earth dust is a micro abrasive and can be pretty bad for your lungs if you breathe it in. I have also read that after rinsing, the run off can be used to as a mechanical pesticide. Just save the first flush of water and spray wist a mister onto aphids, scale, or other insects and they dry right out. I tried this once for a scale infestation on an indoor palm tree and it worked pretty well. Definitely wear a mask when the dust is involved.

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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:41 am

Thank you for this information

p@scal
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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:42 am

RichLewis wrote:I use diatomeceous clay for my trees (in the UK). It's sold as cat litter in the UK; 'Tesco's lightweight cat litter' and 'sophisticat pink' ar kinds I use. Toxic to humans? I certainly hope not! Can you post a picture of it?

check this out:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm

Cheers



Hello Rich

I, for France AVANCAT DELUXE mark, the red bag

http://www.damolin.dk/Default.asp?...

p@scal
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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  RichLewis on Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:00 pm

I believe that's the same stuff I use. It's mined in Denmark and sold all over Europe. It's a hard clay which consists of diatoms (silica shelled plankton) which died and fell to the sea floor whilst the clay was forming thousands of years ago.

I would suggest you wash it before you use it to get rid of some of the dust. Wear a dust mask whilst you do. If you really want to make sure it's safe for your bonsai, plant some cheap junipers or similar in it and see how they grow for a couple of seasons. If it's not toxic to cats then I would suggest it's not toxic to you, as long as you wear a dust mask when handling the fresh dry product. The artificial scent they sometimes add soon dissipates after 3 days or so. ThumbsUp

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diatomée calciné

Post  sunip on Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:40 pm

Perfect stuff, if it is the same as i use.
Here its called Damoline that is a Danisch clay used as cat litter.
I wash it first indeed because of the dust and the added perfume.
Much cheaper and better then akadama, it does not break down after been frozen.
I use the Damoline two years now, so a bit early to say much, but i am happy with it.

cheers, Sunip


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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:42 am

sunip,
Apparently it is for hardwoods but the pines?

p@scal
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diatomée calciné

Post  sunip on Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:22 am

Pascal

I use it for all coniferious trees so my pines to, some young ones like the seedlings out of my garden are in 100% damoline.
But then i am careful with the older ones,
say with an imported Pinus Parviflora i use a mix of akadama and damoline 50/50.
i planned to change to 100% when i am comfortable that a tree does well.
With the old yamadori pinus silvestris trees i use a mix of damoline a bit akadama a bit of baked and expanded clay substrate
and a bit of organic stuff while there is still also old soil and stones left in the roots,
here i make also a slow transition to 100 % damoline to make sure the miccorhizzum fungus is transplanted to.
Here and there i get already good fungus into the substrate.
Having 100% damoline gives me the change to feed without to much danger of overfeeding and
not unimportant here in our wet circumstances, a good drainage.
I am still in the process of finding my way in this.
In early spring i planned to repot my new larix also in damolin and a bit of organic. (larix is new for me)
Only the satsuki's i have in kanuma, thats why they go in the green house when it is really freezing.(I have to look into this)
I was thinking you guys in the south of France are all using The Zeolith substart from Chabasai?
regards, Sunip

sunip
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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:01 am

Yes I use the zeolite, as well but I will search in the product the less cher.Mais bag diatomaceous it is more expensive than the zeolite and pozzolan.
bag litter 7 euro 10 liters, so maybe not too interesting. scratch

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diatomée calciné

Post  sunip on Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:24 am

Pascal,

In the Netherlands i pay for two 20 liter bags (buying two is a bit cheaper) 14,-- euro.
40 liter for 14,-- euro, thats a lot cheaper then 7 euro for 10 liter there in Port st Marie or neightbourhood (Agen-Marmande when i am right)
For the record, the brand cat litter i am buying is Damoline from Purina - tom poes - foetsie ba-.
I found this thanks to the link from bonsai4me Rick Lewis mentioned.
Maybe there are in this link other and cheaper brands to be found for the France?

regards, Sunip


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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  stavros on Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:25 pm

My experience:
I bought Terramol (diatomaceous earth, moler clay) directly from Damolin, the Danish company that produces it. The company sells the same product for horticulture and for cat litter.

All my trees, including my yamadori (mostly olives), junipers, bougaenvilleas, elms, pomegranates, ficus trees etc are planted in this either 100% or with a bit of organic added (sphagnum peat moss up to max.20%).

The trees grow happily, without any problems. The material does not break down like akadama does and it can be reused.

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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:27 pm

Smile Smile Thank you all for all the info

p@scal
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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  p@scal on Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:34 pm

Stavros, that's how many years you use the diatomaceous earth. Question

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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  craigw on Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:06 pm

Here in Australia diatomite is one of our principal potting ingredients. I have been using it for many years and right across the spectrum of species, conifers, deciduous, broad leafed evergreens and natives.I buy it as graded bags at 2-7mm and sieve rotted pine bark to around the same particle size then mix roughly 50/50. I have found it to be a very effective potting mix. If you are concerned about the dust then just wet it slightly before you handle it.
Craigw

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diatomée calcinée

Post  sunip on Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:32 pm


Thanks Craigw, that's encouraging to hear from one u uses it for a longer time.

Stavros, i noticed you are living on Cyprus, would you recommend to pot pistacea into 100% of this substrate,
or would you ad also a bit of organic ?
And what would you recommend for young platanus orientalis?

regards, Sunip

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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  stavros on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:55 am

pascal47 wrote:Stavros, that's how many years you use the diatomaceous earth. Question

Two and a half years. I think it is enough time to have a clear idea of how the substrate works.

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Re: diatomée calcinée

Post  stavros on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:58 am

sunip wrote:
Thanks Craigw, that's encouraging to hear from one u uses it for a longer time.

Stavros, i noticed you are living on Cyprus, would you recommend to pot pistacea into 100% of this substrate,
or would you ad also a bit of organic ?
And what would you recommend for young platanus orientalis?

regards, Sunip

I pot most mediterranean species and conifers in 100% of terramol (diatomaceous earth). For Platanus, i would add some organic since it likes a bit of more water.

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