Satsuki Komane

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  dorothy7774 on Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:04 pm

Toche wrote:Hugs,

I'm really glad if you like the pictures Smile Wink

Very beautiful trees. Thank you so much for posting these pictures, Toche.

-dorothy

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Toche on Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:26 pm

Thank you very much Dorothy, that's very nice. Wink Smile

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  landerloos on Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:10 pm

Toche wrote:Peter,
I will post other photographs, I still have some… much. Smile

Perhaps that we will see ourselves in Noelanders.
I exposed a tree there the last year


Yes perhaps we will run in to eatchother at the trophy.
I did work with Sensei Tsukada at Marcs place, what a eye opener.

Peter

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Toche on Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:25 pm

Sensei Tsukada, the King of the wire. Smile















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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  shimsuki on Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:28 pm

Is the variety of that windswept tree otakumi?

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Toche on Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:15 am

Hi Shimsuki,

Yes, exactly, it is well the otakumi variety in fukinagachi

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  shimsuki on Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:00 pm

I have never seen that variety outside other than the one whip I have of it. It is extremely slow growing! Sad


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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Toche on Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:15 pm

Yes Shimsuki, that's true, I have one, it does not move more than Komane.

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Toche on Thu May 05, 2011 8:47 pm

Hello everyone,

A long time ago, I worked my trees and my bonsai space. Smile










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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Glaucus on Fri May 06, 2011 2:11 am

In the western azalea trade there is a variaty of R.indicum named 'Balsaminiflorum' that is either the same under a different name or very similar.



There is also 'Kikuhime'.

I think these are selections from the wild, but I still wonder how many seeds nature had to grow before one was grown with so many consistent rose-shape filled flowers. Often when stamen 'mutate' into petals it is very imperfect.

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Russell Coker on Fri May 06, 2011 3:32 am

Here's what I know, maybe Glaucus can add to it...

I was with a couple of friends at the Satsuki Festival in Kanuma in the mid 80's. These were bonsai guys, NOT satsuki guys. There was a beautiful komane on display, but I didn't know the name of the variety. I asked my friend the name of the satsuki and he said that he couldn't read the Kanji on the name plate. I was surprised and asked him to explain. He said the Kanji was archaic, maybe a satsuki person would know it but he did not. I found a satsuki friend and SHE confirmed that it was komane, explaining that it was a very old variety of satsuki.

Russell

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Glaucus on Fri May 06, 2011 1:35 pm

The kanji of 'Komane' is 紅万重. None of those are archaic. In fact, they are all 3 very common kanji.

'Kikuhime' is 菊姫 where 'kiku' 菊 means chrysanthemum and 'hime' 姫 means princess. There are several historical princesses with that name.

I have seen satsuki that have kanji that are no longer in use in the Japanese language. This also happens with the names of people.

Maybe the person didn't know how to pronounce the kanji. 'Komane' means 'tenthousand red petals'. or 'tenthousand red folds'.

I don't know what exectly your question was, but it does seem odd as the kanji are all among the most basic of kanji. If anything the person didn't know 紅 because it is crimson red rather than the plain common kanji for red 赤 that I don't see being used to describe flower colours. The other two are among the 200 most commonly used of the 2500 or so common 'newspaper' kanji. 紅 beni crimson is in the 1500-2000 category, but it is common for plants and flowers.

Still, it isn't obvious how to read 'Komane' as it isn't a word but just 3 kanji added together. It could have been 'Benimane' or 'Kobane' or maybe even 'komanjuu' . I think that is the issue.

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Russell Coker on Fri May 06, 2011 1:52 pm

Glaucus wrote:The kanji of 'Komane' is 紅万重. None of those are archaic. In fact, they are all 3 very common kanji.

Still, it isn't obvious how to read 'Komane' as it isn't a word but just 3 kanji added together. It could have been 'Benimane' or 'Kobane' or maybe even 'komanjuu' . I think that is the issue.


Maybe so. I often heard Hakata jiro called Hakata haku.

OK, I was told the same for Gumpo (a flock of phoenix). No one ever seemed to be able to read that kanji either. Any thoughts?

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Glaucus on Fri May 06, 2011 2:07 pm

Shiro, jiro, haku, byaku, all readings of 白 white.

Well 'Gunpo' is 群鳳. where '群' means flock and isn't that odd a kanji but 鳳 refers to a somewhat obscure Chinese mythical creature, a firebird. The kanji refers to only that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenghuang
The common kanji for bird 鳥 is part of 鳳, but the reading of the kanji again isn't obvious.

The readings of many names in Japan aren't obvious. You need to know the kanji and how to pronounce it in many cases. Many names have the same pronunciation, but different kanji. Or the same kanji but different pronunciation. This is even the case with some common names. Cultivar names are no different.


This site is what I use often to figure out the kanji.
http://www.tochinoha-shobo.com/satuki/satukijitenlist.html

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Russell Coker on Fri May 06, 2011 2:24 pm

Glaucus wrote:This site is what I use often to figure out the kanji.
http://www.tochinoha-shobo.com/satuki/satukijitenlist.html

Thanks for that.

I worked for and studied bonsai with this company when it was Gekkan Satsuki Kenkyusha and run by Kenko Rokkaku. That was in the 80's before the bubble burst.

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  GaryWood on Fri May 06, 2011 2:34 pm



The readings of many names in Japan aren't obvious. You need to know the kanji and how to pronounce it in many cases. Many names have the same pronunciation, but different kanji. Or the same kanji but different pronunciation. This is even the case with some common names. Cultivar names are no different.


Oh dear, deer how will we, wee ever get this Shocked

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Russell Coker on Fri May 06, 2011 2:52 pm

Thank god for katakana and hiragana!

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Re: Satsuki Komane

Post  Toche on Sat May 07, 2011 7:54 pm

Hello ! Smile

Here is the address of an extraordinary site for satsuki
http://bonsaispecials.nl/


It would seem that Komane and Kikuhime are two different varieties.
http://bonsaispecials.nl/Kikuhime.html

http://bonsaispecials.nl/Komane.html

And for ' Balsaminiflorum '???
http://www.pbase.com/image/44033524

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Re: Satsuki Komane

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