How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  Robert J. Baran on Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:10 pm

A few reasons to join a club: http://www.phoenixbonsai.com/PFAQ.html#Club

However, I would also agree that club politics, philosophical differences, personality conflicts, and teaching agendas can definitely put at least a temporary damper on how valuable a given club can be at a given time.

This all "should" be about self-expression and exploration of one's vision of/connection with nature. If participation in a club, reading a book or website, or involvement with teachers or students is really that painful, bow out of that avenue and enjoy your magical miniature landscapes some other ways.


The refreshments served during meetings would definitely be upgraded with the addition of scones!

Robert

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:14 pm

fiona wrote:
Rob Kempinski wrote: It will place BCI's "BONSAI and Sone Appreciation" magazine as one of the best bonsai magazines available.

I'm so tempted to amend this as "Scone Appreciation". Now if that were the case, I'd sign up instantly. And I'd feel I had something to offer back to the organisation as my scones rank among the best in Scotland.

For a sample I'd be tempted to bring the idea to the board. Very Happy
I remember the first time I heard of a scone. It was Monty Python's Lumberjack song.

"Mounties: He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesday he goes shopping
And has buttered scones for tea."

Now I need to place Fiona in that mental image. pirat


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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  gman on Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:46 pm

Hi Fiona,

"I'm so tempted to amend this as "Scone Appreciation". Now if that were the case, I'd sign up instantly. And I'd feel I had something to offer back to the organisation as my scones rank among the best in Scotland.

Just like my buns.
It must be the time of year ......but I'm sure you have really nice buns I mean scones and if you like a little country music now and then.......try and find George Canyon's "Betty's Buns".......about a gal who bakes buns in the morning.......
Cheers
G

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  fiona on Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:55 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote: I remember the first time I heard of a scone. It was Monty Python's Lumberjack song.

"Mounties: He cuts down trees, he eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesday he goes shopping
And has buttered scones for tea."

Now I need to place Fiona in that mental image. pirat



Ah it's so clearly not me! If I were a lumberjack, I'd have a much bigger chopper.

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  fiona on Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:13 pm

gman wrote:Hi Fiona ... try and find George Canyon's "Betty's Buns
Duly googled, located and ... have just about stopped laughing.

Hit the road early boy.

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  stavros on Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:59 pm

Robert J. Baran wrote:Wonderful! This is what I was looking for. Thank-you.

I definitely know my sparse researches so far have not scratched the moss off the surface roots. I do not mean to slight or undercount anyone. I did the initial notes from an idea for that page about four months ago. For starters, I know I have not tracked down all Internet or newsletter estimates. Before Paul Gilbert's RMBS newsletter article that in China alone "There are over 5 million people who do bonsai" I was estimating that worldwide there might be some 10 million of us. In associated and unassociated clubs, informal workshop/study groups, unaligned independent growers and family enthusiasts. Practitioners of one form or another of magical miniature landscapes, plant or mineral or both.

In the next few days to coming weeks your, hopefully, many responses will be added to the "census" page. Let me know of other referenced estimates I haven't seen yet. "Post up and be counted!"

Most cordially,

Robert




There are so many enthusiasts who do not belong to a formal club.
Just to give you an idea, in Greece (the hobby is taking its first steps) there are 2 greek speaking bonsai forums and no formal club (at least until recently). The oldest and biggest forum www.mybonsai.gr has more than 1200 active members. I have access to this info since i am a moderator to the specific forum.

I am based in Cyprus where there is no club, no forum, nothing...just a small study group which we managed to form and we meet regularly....the regulars are just 4-5 passionate hobbyists and there are another 4 hobbyists who come occasionally. There is no specialist nursery on the island, no imported pre-bonsai (except the mass production cheap chinese mallsai), no tools, no wires, no japanese substrates, nothing at all. We import everything and we improvise.

I think you should consider the number of people who do not belong to clubs as well if you wan to have a more precise picture.

Stavros


Last edited by stavros on Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:57 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : use of more proper language :))

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  Robert J. Baran on Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:44 pm

Stavros and all,

Yes. I would like to include everyone -- especially the independents.

Any and all estimates by persons in given countries/territories will be considered. I know from my own experience that independents make up a goodly number of enthusiasts. But what percentage? This is not meant to be any form of scientific or legal census-taking. I certainly don't feel that we should or even can go around and ask people if they currently "do bonsai" to any extent. What I'm trying to do is present a little broader picture of what our interest is like.

Club participation is helpful, but -- for various reasons including physical distance, insufficient concentration of enthusiasts in an area, lack of access to study materials and supplies, and even initial ignorance that miniature landscapes are being made by anyone else -- doing this on one's own might initially be inevitable. Yes, many of us have access to the Internet and libraries and bookstores and garden-centers and magazine back-issues in thrift shops and garage sales. But some parts of the world -- including in our own lands -- are not as experienced as we are in learning even the fundamentals from others. And then there are the "semi-independents" who occasionally visit clubs and study groups without officially joining...

As has been mentioned, this is an opportunity to speak up and be unofficially counted. The bonsai/penjing/saikei/suiseki/hono non bo/etc. world is bigger than the average club member and book/magazine/website reader is aware. Do we need to be even vaguely aware that there is more to all of this? I think it would be helpful, even to the extent of allowing us to create a wider range of compositions when we are aware that "bonsai" is much more than "just" the stereotypical Kokufuten-type masterpiece trees and formal presentations.

I am aware of the paradox inherent in this attempt to get a tally: truly independent enthusiasts are "off the grid" so how do we begin to fathom THAT size? Maybe by getting a better idea of how big "the grid" itself is.

Also, would noting general attendance figures at exhibitions and displays provide any focus to the picture?

Asking questions that haven't been asked before.

Cordially,

Robert J. Baran
Bonsai Researcher and Historian

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  Karl Thier on Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:59 pm

Robert J. Baran wrote:A new page for your perusal and assistance: http://www.phoenixbonsai.com/BigPicture/Census.html .

Robert J. Baran
Bonsai Researcher and Historian

Hi Robert, unfortunately it is not true for Austria, it is not Switzerland. Sad
Here is the umbrella organization of Austria.
http://majcen.at/aba/joomla/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

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How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  Robert J. Baran on Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:15 pm

Update made and posted with more direct citation from ABA.

Danke für Ihre Unterstützung.

Robert J. Baran
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israel

Post  theBalance on Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:55 pm

hi from israel,

to the best of my knowledge, in israel there are at least 2 clubs but also indviduals that connect mainly on-line ( via several on line forums sites )
and in the recent years there are more and more people joining.

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:50 pm

Robert, an interesting data indeed! But the one on Russia is obviously dated. If you get in touch with me (dao-dzen@mail.ru) or here after holidays (I'll be away at least untill January 11) I could try to make some assessments on numbers in Russia.

Best regards,

Andrei

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Bonsai in Romania

Post  popan vasile on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:37 pm

Hi Robert.

First of all Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

I am a lover of bonsai trees that fell in love with this art. In Romania we have no club or association, we have three forums instead. From time to time we meet regularly as one workshop. It's hard to appreciate the exact number of Bonsai lovers in our country, I estimate to be between 200-300. We live here in romania pioneering era of bonsai, as in many other places and there's no shortage of everything you need to practice this art. However, due to geophysical conditions have access to materials, Yamada, abundant and varied species.
I wanted to leave this post because it's good, I think, to know that this art was practiced in Romania.
I wish you all the best.
Sorry for my bad English. Writing with Google translator.

Vasile

I apologize but I opened a new heavy topic, the moderator to please move the post in "How many enthusiast are there ?"
Thanks

[Vasile, I merged this post with the requested thread, as you requested.] John Quinn

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  Erik Križovenský on Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:38 pm

Hi Vasile,

Thank you for your Christmas greeting for the entire forum.
I am glad that Romania are bonsai enthusiasts.
Romania is beautiful, people are very good.
I was there.

I wish you successful progress.
Smile

Erik Križovenský
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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

Post  popan vasile on Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:02 am

Hi Erik
Thanks for the good words. Yes, as amateur bonsaisti exist and work, it's true that we are dispersed throughout the country. Who knows, maybe in the future we will be able to organize ourselves and in our clubs.
Yes, I know you were in Romania and not only once Very Happy . Glad you like it country.Who knows ... maybe in the future, if more you, you have the chance to meet.
I wish you well ...

Vasile

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Re: How Many Enthusiasts Are There?

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