Air Layering

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Air Layering

Post  bklynjames on Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:46 pm

Hello all,

Im going to make an attempt to air layer a few branches off a few trees right before spring. Does anyone have any experience with it. Or is there another technique you use.?

Thank you,

bklynjames
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Re: Air Layering

Post  Neil Jaeger on Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:55 pm

I'm pretty new to this forum, but i know alot of people probably won't answer you unless you provide ALOT more information. Like what kind of tree, what temp zone you live in, what are you going to use to material wise, and so on. Hope i helped.

Here is a good link from my bonsai society http://buffalobonsaisociety.com/Propagation.html


Neil

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Air Layering

Post  Guest on Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:04 pm

Even with little information, airlayering is only done while trees are growing. Spring and Summer.

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Re: Air Layering

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:14 pm

Will is spot on. Layering at the wrong time will usually lead to failure.

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Air Layering

Post  bklynjames on Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:42 pm

I posted in my signature im in a hardness zone 6a, NJ USA.
The trees I was thinking of were all pine. I somehow like the way Pines look. Is it wrong to have only one type of bonsai like Pine.
Maybe something like a specialist. Im still rather new to this sport/hobby/Art. But ive been reading alot and tryn to prepare for spring.
Making some starter pots and getting some much needed tools. So any help would definetly be appreciated.

Thank you,

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One More

Post  bklynjames on Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:44 pm

I have seen a few videos where the person cuts a part of the tree off and dips it in rooting hormone and just plants it in a pot. Does this really work, or is it only for a certain type of tree.? I guess thats the question I really wanted to ask.

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Re: Air Layering

Post  JimLewis on Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:01 pm

Pines are far, far from the ideal group to start your layering experiments on.

But just Google "air layering" and you will learn more than you can absorb.

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Re: Air Layering

Post  bklynjames on Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:04 pm

So what would I be able to do with Pines. Should I just look for a Yamadori pine? I have a lot of forest around me, hills and cliffs..

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Re: Air Layering

Post  JimLewis on Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:40 pm

I get the impression -- possibly wrong -- that you are not experienced with bonsai, and not too experienced with plants in general. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If I'm not wrong, your chances of successfully digging a pine and keeping it healthy are also quite small. I'd recommend that you purchase a pine bonsai or a pine from a nursery and start there. Some of us can help you convert a nursery plant into a bonsai or to refine a started pine bonsai.

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Air Layering

Post  bklynjames on Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:52 pm

Not experienced at all. Just what I have seen on videos and what I have read so far.

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Air Layering

Post  Guest on Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:59 pm

As you are new to bonsai. I would suggest finding local bonsai clubs, or a bonsai nursery and attending a workshop. Books on how to create bonsai are also a good idea. As Jim says, digging yamadori at this stage is likely to end in failure.

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Air Layering

Post  bklynjames on Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:31 pm

I can definitely do that. I have looked into a place not too far from here. But they only have classes once in awhile. Ill take the next one and see how it goes.
Two years ago I pulled a Juniper and have it in a training pot and it seems to be doing well. I was able to trim the roots down and place it into a training pot without killing it. But I think it was a freak occurrence. Can someone recommend any books they like? I'd appreciate it.


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Re: Air Layering

Post  Neil Jaeger on Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:30 pm

This is a great all about bonsai book and tells about ALOT of spieces that you can use.

Simon and Schuster's Guide to Bonsai
by Gianfranco Giorgi, Victoria Jahn

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Re: Air Layering

Post  JimLewis on Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:37 pm

And I always recommend Deborah Koreshoff's "Bonsai, its art, science, history and philosophy." It is out of print (again!) and hard to find. Try www.abebooks.com .

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Re: Air Layering

Post  JimLewis on Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:40 pm

bklynjames wrote:I have seen a few videos where the person cuts a part of the tree off and dips it in rooting hormone and just plants it in a pot. Does this really work, or is it only for a certain type of tree.? I guess thats the question I really wanted to ask.

Those are called "cuttings." It works on most trees. Some are harder than others (pines, again), some require cuttings from new, soft growth, some hardwood, some can do both. Some take weeks to show roots, other take months. Again, Google "propagation by cuttings" for details.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Air Layering.

Post  bklynjames on Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:02 pm

Awesome, thank you Jim I appreciate your patience.
Its alot easier when you have direction..

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Re: Air Layering

Post  Neil Jaeger on Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:01 am

JimLewis wrote:And I always recommend Deborah Koreshoff's "Bonsai, its art, science, history and philosophy." It is out of print (again!) and hard to find. Try www.abebooks.com .

Wow, i found a used copy on azamon for 29.99 dollars but some new copies are over 200 dollars!!! Is the book that good Jim?

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Re: Air Layering

Post  JimLewis on Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:35 pm

It is the best overall, comprehensive, book on bonsai I have found. It isn't really for true beginners, but I refer to it more often than any other -- including the highly-touted Naka twin books. If you found it at that price, BUY IT!

More often it sells used for $50-70.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Air Layering

Post  Neil Jaeger on Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:07 pm

JimLewis wrote:It is the best overall, comprehensive, book on bonsai I have found. It isn't really for true beginners, but I refer to it more often than any other -- including the highly-touted Naka twin books. If you found it at that price, BUY IT!

More often it sells used for $50-70.

I should be able to handle it, i've been into bonsai for almost 2 years and have already read a few botany books. My problem is'nt keeping the tree alive it is styling. It's wierd, i have always been OK at art i just can't picture styles in my head. Witch in turn has probably caused me to miss ALOT of trees to collect. Well i guess that will come in time (i pray) if not, i don't know what i would do Crying or Very sad . I have a pretty nice san jose juniper that will be ready to be styled in the spring. We'll see what happens. Neutral

Thanks again for the time,

Neil

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Re: Air Layering

Post  Alain Bertrand on Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:17 am

will baddeley wrote:Even with little information, airlayering is only done while trees are growing. Spring and Summer.

I beg to differ. There are a few articles by japanese growers that advise to begin the airlayer at the end of winter, quite a few weeks before trees start growing and I have first and second hand experience that it does works. I have, though, not enough experience to compare success rates in each case.

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Re: Air Layering

Post  JimLewis on Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:09 pm

i've been into bonsai for almost 2 years and have already read a fewbotany books. My problem is'nt keeping the tree alive it is styling.

I've been doing bonsai twenty times as long as you and I have the same problem.

All I can suggest is to keep on looking at trees. Do NOT look that hard at other bonsai -- though they can inspire as well. That only encourages the making of bonsai that look less like trees and more like bonsai. Generic.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Air Layering

Post  Neil Jaeger on Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:16 pm

JimLewis wrote:
i've been into bonsai for almost 2 years and have already read a fewbotany books. My problem is'nt keeping the tree alive it is styling.

I've been doing bonsai twenty times as long as you and I have the same problem.

All I can suggest is to keep on looking at trees. Do NOT look that hard at other bonsai -- though they can inspire as well. That only encourages the making of bonsai that look less like trees and more like bonsai. Generic.

Wow, ya, that makes sense. I find myself looking at bonsai and saying i want one JUST like that one. I guess that is one of the worst things to do. You can only do so much with what you have. Thanks Jim i thing i just had a revelation Very Happy

Neil

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Re: Air Layering

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:19 pm

Alain Bertrand wrote:
will baddeley wrote:Even with little information, airlayering is only done while trees are growing. Spring and Summer.

I beg to differ. There are a few articles by japanese growers that advise to begin the airlayer at the end of winter, quite a few weeks before trees start growing and I have first and second hand experience that it does works. I have, though, not enough experience to compare success rates in each case.

In Bonsai Today 48 & 49 is an article about a large beech that was layered in late winter before any bud movement. Since reading that article I have experimented on numerous trees, deciduous(numerous), Pinus radiata & thunbergii, Cedrus. All being successful, the deciduous by removing a ring of bark as per normal and then gauging into the wood a short way to help prevent the tree from healing over instead of rooting. With the pinus I cut notches around the branch in several places.

I say have a go, one thing to think about is what you practice your techniques on. By all means make your layers on the pines as long as its material you dont mind sacrificing if it fails. Having said that most layers dont fail until they are removed. They often heal over the cut you have made, if so recut & put some sort of barrier (strip of thick wire etc) to try & stop that & encourage root. Some species can make roots in as little as a few weeks (eg Ficus during the growing season) others can take several years. The methods, medium, species and age of the bit you want to layer will all affect the outcome & length of time the process will take.

Heres links to 2 layers I currently have going Pyrus Calleryana Cedrus Atlantica the pear has lots of photos at each stage & was started in April (my fall), it is yet to show root but has considerable callous. The Cedrus was ringbarked in July (my winter) and is starting to show roots, 2cm dia & 20cm tall. The Callery pear is approx 15cm dia multi trunk the tallest is 25cm & 8cm dia. The base of the pear will also be regrown for shohin.



Have a go & show us your results.

Matt

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Air Layering

Post  bklynjames on Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:34 am

Wow thankx matt..!!!!

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Re: Air Layering

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:24 am

Hello Matt. There is a big difference between airlayering at the start of Winter and when the tree is about to break bud in late Winter, early Spring. Perform this now and the cut edge will sit cold and wet right through Winter. Not a good idea. The tree has to be growing to issue new roots.

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