Please can someone ID my bonsai

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Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  suerowbotham on Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:17 pm

Hi everyone, I am totally new to bonsai growing, this is my second bonsai, the first I gave back to the person who bought it for me for her to take care of it. How can I attach images so that someone can identify what type it is, believe it or not I bought it from Lidl Supermarket a couple of months ago, there was no label on to say what it was but I just liked the look of it, and I would love to successfully grow and nurture this one. I know it needs pruning but I don't know where to start and the root also seems loose in the pot.
Hope someone can help
Regards
Sue





Last edited by Kev Bailey on Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:34 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : posting images)

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  my nellie on Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:00 pm

Looks like a carmona, I would say...
I know these bonsai sold by Lidl. The same are sold here in Greece....
I would like to tell you that you should check the pot because most probably your bonsai is plant into a plastic pot which is put into this ceramic pot with this tray underneath. But the external ceramic pot does not have draining holes. So, be careful that the inside plastic pot is not standing into water....

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  Storm on Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:15 pm

I dont have much knowledge, but im 100% it a fukien tea. Carmona retusa.
Ive found out it doesnt like wet feet, keeping it on the dry side. Mine is planted in cat litter, but im having problems to make it shoot branches..
Also, it produces white flowers all year round.. Mine have managed to stay well alive indoors during cold weather. Winters here can get brutal.
Guess you have to wait for answers from people at your area to be helped further, on outdoor conditions etc.

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  Kev Bailey on Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:48 pm

Carmona retusa or C microphylla, there's lots of info on the web. Loose in the pot is possibly risky. It needs to be stabilised by tying or wiring it to the pot, so that it can't move until it has formed enough roots to make it secure. Don't worry about the pruning, it's easy. You can cut off the this year's new growths leaving a couple of leaves.

_________________
“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.” - Charles Darwin.

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Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:16 am

As you already know, this is a Fukien tea. The CORRECT botanical name is Ehretia microphylla. It is not the easiest indoor bonsai, but many people are successful with it. It likes warmth, bright light, and high humidity.
Iris

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:47 am

Fukien tea- lots of humidity and full sun exposure doesnt like much water. branches are hard and not easy to bend and wire.

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  suerowbotham on Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:00 pm

I just want to thank everyone for their help, I know about as much as you could fit on a postage stamp Very Happy but I love my little tree, it is the first I have managed to keep healthy so far. It is planted straight into the ceramic pot and I have realised that it doesn't like too much water cos the leaves turn yellow and drop off, it does like to be on the dry side. What is puzzling me is that the flowers don't come out, they turn brown and drop off, there must be something that I am not doing.
I will wire it to the pot Kev, I just need to know what thickness of wire I should use, I have to find someone that does bonsai supplies, we are not very well blessed in my area.
Is there any rule that says you should wire your tree or can you just let the trunk grow naturally?

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:35 pm

dont worry about the flower. it is better for the tree not to have flowers at the early stage on the pot. it needs lot of energy to grow roots to be more stable and healthy. plants spent more energy on flowers and fruits and not always good for the plant.
with regards to wiring your tree on the pot... any string or thin rope will do if you cannot find a wire for bonsai.

wiring helps you to train your tree to place the branches where you want them to be, clip and grow (cut then let grow repeatedly) will help you attain a good branch ramification and tapered appearance.

oh, be sure you got a good draining soil medium. the wood of fukien tree is very prone to rotting.
goodluck!
regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  suerowbotham on Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:59 pm

Thanks for your comments Jun. I just thought the flowers would look lovely, very delicate but I realise they are not as important as having a healthy tree. I think I have the watering just right I bought the soil from a local garden centre who are supplied by kyoto bonsai in the UK and it seems to have good drainage.
Regards
Sue

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:37 pm

suerowbotham wrote:What is puzzling me is that the flowers don't come out, they turn brown and drop off, there must be something that I am not doing.
Is there any rule that says you should wire your tree or can you just let the trunk grow naturally?
Do you have a humidity gauge? Your humidity is probably too low for the flowers.
With Fukien tea, you probably couldn't wire the trunk if you wanted to. Use clip & grow.
Iris

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  suerowbotham on Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:41 pm

Hi Iris, no I don't have a gauge, I have been spraying the leaves just lately. I think I will just secure the tree to the pot as the root is a little loose. I will do some research on the clipping.
Thanks
Sue

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:46 pm

yes Iris, clip and grow is good for fukien tea... branches are very hard to bend when matured.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  Randy_Davis on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:13 am

bonsaisr wrote:As you already know, this is a Fukien tea. The CORRECT botanical name is Ehretia microphylla. It is not the easiest indoor bonsai, but many people are successful with it. It likes warmth, bright light, and high humidity.
Iris

Actually the correct name is Carmona microphylla. Both Carmona retusa and Ehretia microphylla have been changed.

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:25 am

Randy_Davis wrote:
Actually the correct name is Carmona microphylla. Both Carmona retusa and Ehretia microphylla have been changed.
What is your reference? I got my information from the Royal Horticultural Society.
Iris

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Please ID my Bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:27 am

suerowbotham wrote:Hi Iris, no I don't have a gauge, I have been spraying the leaves just lately.
Thanks
Sue
Spraying the leaves will do nothing except spread disease. It is not a substitute for a humidifier.
Sorry,
Iris

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  Randy_Davis on Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:17 am

bonsaisr wrote: What is your reference? I got my information from the Royal Horticultural Society.
Iris

I use Tropicos3 the Saint Louis botanical nomenclature database. This is the organization that hosts the international code of botanical nomenclature (i.e. the St. Louis code). It is the recognized authority by the USDA, IPNI, NY Botanical gardens and other national and international researh institutions.

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  suerowbotham on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:00 am

Thanks Iris I will bear that in mind
Regards
Sue

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:17 pm

Randy_Davis wrote:
I use Tropicos3 the Saint Louis botanical nomenclature database.
I'm familiar with Tropicos, but they recently changed their format. I went there to see for myself about Ehretia vs Carmona, but it tried to tell me it never heard of either one. How do I get in from Safari?
Iris

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Can somebody ID my bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:11 pm

This from Rafael Govaerts, a top taxonomist at Kew, and editor of the Kew Checklists. Ehretia predates Carmona by about 20 years.
Now, it is possible that the accepted name in Missouri is not the accepted name in Kew. That has happened before, and it eventually gets sorted out. In the past, I have sometimes found Tropicos rather ambiguous. I usually follow Kew.
Iris

From: "Rafaël Govaerts" <R.Govaerts@kew.org>
Subject: RE: Fukien Tea
Date: October 21, 2010 10:33:17 AM EDT
To: "'IrisCohen@aol.com'" <IrisCohen@aol.com>
Dear Iris,
The accepted name is Ehretia microphylla.
Cheers,
Rafaël

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Re: Please can someone ID my bonsai

Post  Randy_Davis on Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:58 pm

bonsaisr wrote:
Randy_Davis wrote:
I use Tropicos3 the Saint Louis botanical nomenclature database.
I'm familiar with Tropicos, but they recently changed their format. I went there to see for myself about Ehretia vs Carmona, but it tried to tell me it never heard of either one. How do I get in from Safari?
Iris

Iris,

If you go to tropicos just type in the Genus name. It will bring up all species of the genus. Then check "synonyms" and "accepted Names".

R

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Can somebody ID my bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:10 am

I found it. They consider Ehretia microphylla a synonym. To the audience: a synonym in taxonomy is not the same as a synonym in Roget's Thesaurus. In taxonomy it means AKA but not his legal name.
Interesting. I will ask Rafael.
Iris

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Please ID my Bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:11 pm

I think we need to conclude this taxonomic slugfest before the Administrators lock us up.
This just in from Rafael:
<<Tropicos does not accept or synonymize anything, they just cite references (mostly from their own publications) that use the name.>>
(Apparently their use of "accepted" and "synonym" is just reporting other works.)
<<In this case they cite one 15 year old reference that did accept Carmona microphylla.
The (Kew) checklist normally looks at as many newly published papers as possible and tries to follow the latest peer reviewed data or the one that carries the most weight in evidence.
So please just look at the Tropicos references as opinions MO staff and projects have expressed at some time in the past.>>
Therefore, the accepted name is Ehretia microphylla.
Iris

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