2 Short rules question

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2 Short rules question

Post  Jonas Freeman on Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:25 pm

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me where to find a good summary/explanation on the internet about bonsai rules? I know about that no branches are to cross the trunk but wonder if this also aplies to jin?

Jonas

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Re: 2 Short rules question

Post  JimLewis on Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:41 pm

Just about any basic bonsai book will have the "rules:" Tomlinson, Gustafson, Simon & Schuster, Prescott's "Pocket Bonsai," etc.

Or, you can study good bonsai -- in real life or in photos.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: 2 Short rules question

Post  Guest on Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:45 pm

Jonas Freeman wrote:Hi all,

Can anyone tell me where to find a good summary/explanation on the internet about bonsai rules? I know about that no branches are to cross the trunk but wonder if this also aplies to jin?

Jonas

Like Jim suggests. Buy some of the good books and learn from them. And remember, there are no rules, only guidelines.

Regards
Morten

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Bonsai Rules

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:47 pm

If you want to look on the Internet, go here. http://www.andyrutledge.com/book/
This may be what you're looking for.
In books, the benchmark is John Naka's Bonsai Design 1 & 2.
Otherwise, keep up with the forum Bonsai Questions. Sooner or later, many design questions are answered. Post pictures of your trees, & see what the experts say.
Iris

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Re: 2 Short rules question

Post  Jonas Freeman on Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:30 pm

Thanks all for the replies.

I do have different books from Norman, Prescott, Webber, Chan etc... with some rules and their perception but it isn't clear to me if a crossing jin is a no go. I did look at the images on internet and saw jin going up, down, left, right and around therefore the question.

Thanks Jonas

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Bonsai Rules

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:42 pm

Ask yourself, would it occur in nature? How would it look as part of the design? I would have to see it to say definitely, but from your description, I would say that a jin that crosses in front of the trunk would not be acceptable.
Are you anywhere where you can get to bonsai shows? If you are in the Netherlands, you have enviable opportunities. Study the masters.
Iris

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Re: 2 Short rules question

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

In literati form, crossing branches living or not enhances the effect of the composition...so there is really no rules.
If it looks natural to you and it looks beautiful go for it, even if it violates the "rules" you are refering to.

I read this somewhere but I forgot where...three guidelines I personally prefer- harmony, beauty and naturalness (story of the tree)
In shows study which trees follow "rules" to the letters and you would notice that these trees are so unnatural I personally called these trees- textbook trees.
One of the best source of info for bonsai..............IBC! here you get all the assortment of bonsai people.
all of the above are my humble opinion.

regards,
jun study

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Re: 2 Short rules question

Post  Brett Summers on Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:13 am

This may be just the read for you Jun

http://www.bonsaivault.com/The__Rules___Part__1.html
http://www.bonsaivault.com/The__Rules___Part__2.html

Also one of the best list of one liner rules would have to be Brent Waltsons
http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/rules.htm


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Re: 2 Short rules question

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:34 pm

Brett,

Hi.
firstly. the The title (on your link)- says "rules" of visual arts... I think the author is not even sure if what he is writing is really a "rule"...its still based on his own perception of what he thinks is good or not. and it is not the gospel truth. so why follow someones own point of view if it is just an opinion, you can read and admire his reasoning and get some tips, and thats basically it.
secondly. the author says he is not capable of creating a good bonsai...so he is speaking IMHO as a layman in terms of bonsai, again you can admire his reasoning and get some tips, and thats basically it.
thirdly. he is comparing bonsai with other form of arts such as painting, music, and i think theater too...he forgot architecture.
those other arts have a beginning and an ending...in bonsai, the art is changing as long as the tree is alive and evolving, so rules on the other arts are not entirely applicable to bonsai, except probably on forest/penjing planting by which the artist follows the basic principle of architecture perspective and rendering technique on landscape design, again you can admire his reasoning and get some tips, and thats basically it.

lastly. dont get me wrong when I said there is no "rules" to follow( the so called "rules" are guidelines) believe me they are all guidelines, otherwise the art of bonsai wont evolve...like the other form of arts the practicing artist of bonsai must not be hindered by any "rules". for beginners the guidelines must be followed in order for him/her to know the basic, but later he must be freed from these basic "rules" otherwise he/she will not be capable of seeing further, as a result all bonsai would look the same trees with some variations-from formal upright to cascading tree.... and that would be a very boring art. thats the reason why he/she as a bonsai artist must experiment along the way.

...but to correct your impression on me not following art guidelines, I think your probable perception on that case is wrong... I am a serious practicing architect, interior designer, landscape artist, with some painting and sculpting on my free time. so I needed and I got tons of books and magazines on arts and other allied services of architecture. I even do arts during my dream(sometimes I solve my architectural space planning in my dream). Art is my livelihood...other rules on art specially architecture I follow them down to the smallest detail. but dealing with bonsai and based on my other "art" personal experienced, the one posted on your link cannot be considered to be the "rules"... not even close (again for me that is). but again you and I can admire the authors reasoning and get some tips, and that is basically it.

by the way I didnt get the name of the author. He writes well.

regards,
jun
study

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Re: 2 Short rules question

Post  Jonas Freeman on Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:39 am

Thanks for all the reactions,

As I understand basically there are the guidelines but it is up to the goal you want to achieve if they are strictly followed or not, as long it is in harmony and balance with the tree. I think this will be a good starting point to work from, a achievable goal and good balance. Like Jun states it's art and as with arts goes, thousand people thousand opinions. The nice aspect of this art is the dynamics involved.

Thanks Jonas

Jonas Freeman
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Re: 2 Short rules question

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