Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

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Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:32 pm

Well, in conversation with an old internet friend, the topic of the seagrape came up.
So for C.R here are my children and what a fully grown tree looks like.
Feel free anyone to ask questions.
Khaimraj



Found with one root holding on to the highwater soil line for life.
Collected about 89/90 not sure - age unknown, it was already old of appearance.
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Second image - found as seedling. Age about 10 plus years.

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:35 pm

Another seedling grown for about 15 plus years.



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How large is a seagrape leaf ?


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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:38 pm

Seagrape tree and closeup of trunk. Growing on the seashore. Age unknown.


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Closeup of trunk.


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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Jerry Meislik on Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:46 pm

Nice work. It is hard dealing with the large leaf of the Sea Grape but you have done a great job.
Jerry
www.bonsaihunk.us

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:25 am

Wow !!
Coming from you Sir, that is quite a compliment.
Been going to your site for quite sometime.
Thanks again.
Khaimraj

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love it

Post  ogie on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:37 am

very very pretty,im sure the leaves will be more smaller in the time to come,as it is now you have accomplish so much already,
enjoy and rgards,
alex

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Jim Doiron on Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:51 am

Wow that has some great character, coloration and surface texture! What did you do to that tape measure to get it like that? Very Happy

No these are great, I have always admired these when I was down in Miami and wished I could bring them up north but knew I would kill them. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:12 pm

Good Morning Folks.

Alex, I need to figure out a way to increase the branching of the seagrape. Leaves can go down to less than 2.5cm [ 1 inch ] but that is for exhibition status. With 2nd growth, the size goes back up a little.
I used to have a special seedling that branched more than normal, and was only about 10 cm [ 4 inches] in height, but it fell behind the stand and perished from lack of water. It was an old child and that was a very sad day. I buried him / her near one of my dog's graves.
I keep looking for another.

Ah, but Jim you missed the artfully and tastefully applied masking tape that holds the case together. Laughing
I have had that tape measure foreverrrrrrrrr....
Yes, I admire the seagrape so much I have one planted on the front lawn, that's where the normal leaf came from. The birds don't let me get any fruit. Love the new leaves and I have a few logs of driftwood put away to one day make a chair.

I once had a head carved from a piece of burnt driftwood, a woman's face and lots of hair, but someone broke into the house I was then living in and stole it, along with the stand.

This is another tree, which I keep looking for as seedling that has more than average branching,in the shade. The idea is that in full sun, it will branch even more.

Thanks to both of you for looking and responding.
Khaimraj


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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:37 pm

Khaimraj,

Although not my favorite bonsai subject, I do have one in my collection. Sea Grapes have two budding seasons, one in February and a stronger one in June-July. Defoliation during this period will definitely increase the ramification. During this stage, I do not worry about the leaf size. It will help you increase the girth of branches. By the way, budding season coincides with the period when bark exfoliates. Cleaning old bark increases the chance of adventitious buds becoming branches. Once leaves begin to grow, make sure the do so evenly. Since the leaves are large in size, if some grow faster than the others, shading will reduce growth on other buds.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:16 pm

Jose,

as far as I can tell seagrape will never make a classical bonsai, this is more a case of memories, going to the beach and picking the somewhat salty fruit. I have even tried to make jelly as well ------ an acquired taste.

To be frank, and this is why I have only one small bonsai and about 6 mame'ish , the leaves fight you all the way.
Alex sent a suggestion privately and I will add yours to the notes as well.
I have had once in awhile leaves the size of 1 cm, but can't produce that effect at will.

I can easily get 5 to 6 inch trunks, due to the government clearing areas for drainage,etc., but until I can get many more branches, all I will end up with is a big trunk with 3 to 4 inch sized leaves. Not very convincing as a bonsai, but still requiring a lot of training. Time better spent on trees/shrubs with finer twigging or small leaves.

Never tried to clean the trunks - interesting.

I shall persist.
Thanks for the advice.
Khaimraj




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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Jerry Meislik on Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:37 pm

Khaimraj ,
I have to agree that this material will never in my hands be a classical bonsai due to the large leaves, long petioles and reluctance to form dense branching. Still, I have one tree and I enjoy it even if it is not classical.
To me it is a very tropical form and I enjoy it as such.
Jerry
www.bonsaihunk.us

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For Khaimraj

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:06 pm

Khaimraj,

Below, several pictures of my only sea grape bonsai. I think we all agree it is not classical bonsai material, but perhaps we can appreciate their own nature. Also, this tree produces fruit in abundance.


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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:07 pm

Side View


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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:08 pm

Trunk Detail


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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:09 pm

Detail of the nebari. (Please excuse the weeds!!!)

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:11 pm

Detail of the exfolitating bark and hollow trunk


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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Jerry Meislik on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:27 pm

Jose Luis,
Nice tree.
Jerry

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:35 pm

Jerry,

Thanks. Unfortunately, developing fine ramification is very hard. Some of the long shoots will be shortened once the branches thicken enough.

Kind Regards,

Jose Luis


Last edited by jrodriguez on Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:40 pm

Jose,

wow! Thanks very much for showing. I gather from the rocks [ limestone ? ] that you have much more rugged looking seagrapes ?
Ours tend to be gentle and domed, as are our buttonwoods.

In the months to come could you re-do a shot for me with some distance to see the tree as you would display for exhibition ?
I would like to see how you designed your effort. You can also leave on the foliage, I have no problems with the seagrape leaves, it's what they do. Plus I like the colours.

Are the rocks really needed or are they functioning like my brick to hold the tree somewhat erect ?

I try not to let my own fruit, it's a feast for the birds and my largest seagrape, which is the one shown here lives with all my small mame'. I have found enough pots on the lawn from birds bug hunting and squirrels being chased by cats or just having fun.
AND I live in the city Laughing , but the neighbourhood is mature and trees are old / big enough for some forms of wildlife.

I found that my seagrapes like my home-made compost and cocopeat, they even liked the peatmoss stuff when I used to use it, so they didn't need calcareous soils types.
I really must test the local yellow clay soil to see if it is acidic or alkaline.

Got anymore to show Smile

I have only seen now and then stuff from your side and our Bonsai Society is very into itself, it used to be 95 + % Chinese, and a few Chinese mixed.
Thanks again.
Khaimraj

* You guys responded whilst I was scripting.

Are you sure seagrape as trees have many branchlets ?

I have looked up into the mature ones on our side and it's the leaves that make up the density.
When I am in Mayaro, I will take a few digishots up into a mature tree and climb up, make acount.

You might be trying to do something that is not genetically possible.

You can keep the shoots short and make an illusion of being densely branched.


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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Jerry Meislik on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:50 pm

From my observations in nature the tree is not densely branches but quite loose.
Jerry
www.bonsaihunk.us

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:21 pm

Khaimraj,

This tree was collected from the sea shore many years ago. It was uprooted with rock and everything. I have often thought of removing it from the rock (it wouldn't be a problem), but since it is the only one i have and it came in it, i do not mind.

Our sea grapes, suriana maritima (Bay Cedar) and buttonwoods all are very rugged and twisted. They have been to hell and back!!!

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:55 pm

Guys, LOVE the little sea grapes!! Unconventional bonsai material always fascinates me. Who would have ever thought that something so big and course could make such interesting bonsai??? Wish I had one of those, they look really fun.

R

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Re: Tropical - Seagrape - for C.R

Post  bumblebee on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:09 pm

I used to have a few seedlings, but last winter's cold temps got them all. This thread makes me want to try again.

Libby

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