So just how good is HB-101

I am investigating this plant nutrient HB-101 from Japan... check it out here:HB-101 , have any members used it? It is VERY expensive but if it helps establish newly collected Yamadori it would be worth it... as for Superthire... I never knew if it worked or not

Well, Tony, as they say on this side of the pond, "There ain't no free lunch."

You will note that nowhere in their propaganda is there even a hint at what is in their "stuff." There also is no ingredients label, indicating under the laws of most countries that it is NOT a fertilizer.

There also are testimonials from all those satisfied customers, none of whom seem to have any credentials I would consider as "expert." Gobs of testimonials from people no one knows and who may or may not BE people are another typical mark of a flim-flam.

The flyer also uses todays MOST magic word: "Organic." If it's "organic," it just HAS to be good, doesn't it? They don't say organic what.

Here are the ONLY thing plants need to grow: Nitrogen, Phosphorous, Potassium, Iron, Manganese, Magnesium, Zinc, (and one of two other trace elements whose names have vanished from my mind). They also need: water and sunlight.

Add a little dirt, and plants have everything they need for robust healthy growth.

"Super" mixtures, like Superthrive, HB-101 (and the other "101" products they're so garishly proclaiming on line and in that uniformative PDF file) the "Roots" products, etc. might just as well be hogwash. And, in fact, real hogwash probably would contain enough of the listed ingredients above that it would be beneficial to plants.

I'd save your money and buy some Miracle-Gro. When applied as directed, it has everything your trees need (except the sunlight).

Hello Tony

The same discussion occured at our german Forum.
In the end the basic question came out...."What helps or not".
Some people have their own "tested"?? ingredients and ready made fertilizers.....they stay with it as they are pleased with it,.....including me.
One member, a chemist, with a long time experience in bonsai, told us about his favourite "roothelper/-builder"...simply vitamin B. Most people were astonished but in the end some used it and they were pleased too...so it seems to work.
Possibly you have heart about that too.

Best regards
Martin

Klaudia & Martin thanks for your reponse... going way back I remember crushing vitamin B1 tablets into water... but sorta stopped doing it... does anyone know a satifactory way of administrating B1 and in what form?

G'Day Tony,
Thiamine (Vitamin B1), Naphthalene acetic acid (NAA) and Indole acetic acid (IAA) are beneficial following root trauma. These plant hormones stimulate root tip growth and division, we use them commonly for cuttings and for most potted plants after replanting. That is how we stimulate roots to form from a callus in tissue culture. I agree with the above that light, water, N, P, K, Ca, Mg, S, B, Fe, Mn, Na etc. are the essentials for photosynthesis- but would add that plants get most of these through fine roots- so if you have traumatised the roots it will help to encourage new root growth. Plus it makes me feel like I am caring for my bonsai.
Downunder you can buy B1, NAA and IAA in solution under the names Auxinone (made by Barmac) or Growth Formula (made by Agricrop). They are cheap (the for advert. for Auxinone says $5 per bowling green). I am sure that there would be something similar available in the UK.

Ashley

Tony wrote:Klaudia & Martin thanks for your reponse... going way back I remember crushing vitamin B1 tablets into water... but sorta stopped doing it... does anyone know a satifactory way of administrating B1 and in what form?

Tony,

Perhaps your original question should have been... What are you trying to achieve by using this product? and what results do you expect?

I know I have certain difficulties acquiring products here in Canada in comparison with what is available in the States. Not knowing what is available in the UK I cannot provide an adequate response to your question without knowing what are you trying to achieve.

There is a lot of tongue and cheek going on these days, is this a serious question or just another Superthrive thread?

There's more scientific literature against using B-1 these days than there is in favor of using it -- and the research that pointed toward using it is quite old. It has been a couple of years since I did a literature search on the topic, and I no longer have access to Lexis-Nexis, but biologist friends and extension people I talk to say there is no new evidence pointing to B-1 being beneficial.

OTOH, it probably doesn't hurt anything, so if you want to spend your money on B-1 and Stuporthrive (and probably these 101 products) have at it. I'll save MY money. Magic exists in fantasy novels; not in the world of horticulture.

Rick Moquin wrote:
There is a lot of tongue and cheek going on these days, is this a serious question or just another Superthrive thread?

Hi Rick, this is an absolute serious thread... reasoning is that collected yamadori from the previous year has suddenly turned up its toes and died... not just in my garden but in Lees also. HB-101 says "helps recovering plants" I am clearly aware of the 'Superthrive" debacle does it REALLY work?[i]

I am going to use B1... its cheap... and what harm can it do... I just need to find some

Tony wrote:

Rick Moquin wrote:
There is a lot of tongue and cheek going on these days, is this a serious question or just another Superthrive thread?

Hi Rick, this is an absolute serious thread... reasoning is that collected yamadori from the previous year has suddenly turned up its toes and died... not just in my garden but in Lees also. HB-101 says "helps recovering plants" I am clearly aware of the 'Superthrive" debacle does it REALLY work?[i]

I am going to use B1... its cheap... and what harm can it do... I just need to find some

I never doubted the thread wasn't serious, I just didn't see where you were trying to go with this. B1 is available at any drug store/pharmacy or the "chemist" I believe you folks refer them to. Traces of HB 101 can be found in many applications. However how does it compare to the stuff you get from Japan?

If the goal for the use of this product is the development of roots in collected material, then perhaps the use of a high phosphorous content fert would be of some use e.g. 10-52-10. I do not do yamadori, but all transplanted trees get a dose at 1/2 strength followed by full strength 2 weeks later, and on to a normal feeding schedule thereafter. With this practice I have achieved great success.

Wrt B1 I as well used it in the beginning and saw little to no benefit and discontinued its use.

We all might consider that NONE of the big Agrichemical companies -- Ortho, Dow, Agri-Chem, etc. -- market a B-1 concoction. Neither do they sell magic elixirs like Superthrive. Rest assured when something like S'thrive or Roots, or whatchmacallit 101 hit the market they buy a bottle and hand it over to their chemists. In a week or two they have detailed qualitative and quantitative chemical analyses of these concoctions, and if there was any merit at all in them they'd have a competing product on line immediately. They don't.

Hi Tony,

Am I the only person to respond so far that has actually used HB101?

I have found it to have positive results in my circumstances. I dont know about the testimonials and their claims, but as I say mine have been positive. The rep at the Green club gave me samples including HB 101 granules, which was difficult initially as I dont read Japanese, however the company responded very quickly to provide me instructions. The liquid dosage rate is minscule a 4 drops to 500 ml.

The man to speak to is Peter Warren, who has used it and seen it used extensively.

An Aussie matetold me to mix some Veggiemate in water? for B1 input. Summat you either love or hate, my mate.......

PS Did you visit Titchfield?
Hope to see you at BoBBS

Dave.

I did get a 250ml bottle for free from that company, rarely used it, its not true that the label is not telling whats in it.
Mine is labelt with al the plantextrakts that they use in HB 101.
The represantative of HB 101 in Denmark is a japanese lady thet told me, that japanes ladys drink it and even take baths in it (should be good for the skin).
Hb 101 is not a fertilizer but should work like some other hormon based growenhancers.
I will use it as a folliare spray on my pines this year.


Kind regards
Peter

For some, I guess, bonsai is a belief system. To hell with science. I give up. I surrender. I capitulate.

(But I won't waste MY money.)

I will join in here to add my two pennorth mainly because I share Jim's exasperation at the lack of horticultural science associated with the discussion.

I am no expert but like most have done a little reading and there are some mixed up concepts here principally with the 3 main growth processes; photosythesis, transpiration and respiration. Understanding these will help us come to our own conclusions not only on HB101 but on many other issues. Unfortunately, there is no shortcut to this but to get the text books out or find someone whose opinion you value.

To greatly over simplify these life processes.
Nutrients are not required for photosynthesis instead it is water, and carbon dioxide which is converted to sugars and oxygen using sunlight as energy.

Respiration is the reverse of this process, releasing the energy from phtotosynthesis to build plant parts; leaves, bark, flowers seeds, roots, whatever. When these plant parts are built, it is here that nutrients are needed.

Transpiration is one system that the plant uses to get the nutrients to the site they are needed. It is associated with the movement of water from roots to leaves with nutrient transported as ions in solution.

later edit; These processes are cyclical and interrelated.

Now back to the question of HB101 effectiveness.
I doubt that any rigorous scientific study has been carried out on the product and therefore claims have to accepted with this in mind.
However, anecdotal evidence need not be dismissed as many discoveries have been found this way.
Also bear in mind that there are areas within plant sciences that are not yet fully understood. So this might give some hope to those who wish to buy some snake oil.

So what do we know here to help make up our minds?

• Roots require air, water, and nutrients to grow. later edit: and warmth.
  Root growth is also stimulated by plant growth hormones, principally a relationship between auxins and cytokinin.
  There is a symbiotic relationship between roots and mycorrhiza.
  Plant growth is a bio-chemical response to environmental cues.

This last point is noteworthy in that plants will sometimes react to a substance that is very close, chemically, to the material that occurs naturally. This might explain growth responses to unusual products like yeast extract sandwich spreads.

So can HB101 help with any of this?
We are unsure of its ingredients but as I understand there is a small amount of nutrient but not enough to make a big difference in the dilutions it is being applied.
It contains some humate (Google this for an explanation) there are claims that this can help root development. However, humate is already sold in garden centres at a more competive price if you feel the urge to try it.
alternatively, it is produced during the normal decomposition of organic matter so if you have some organic material in your potting compost this should be sufficient.

I suspect the likely reason folks speak of HB101 favourably is because they used it on a sick tree which recovered. But what else did they do at the same time? The likelihood is that they also moved it to shade, improved humidity, cut back some foliage, reduced watering, (later edit: provided bottom heat) and cut back on fertiliser all of which would have had a much bigger impact than a few drops of humate.

Later edit: This is all to stimulate cell division so this is where your thoughts should lie; to provide the physical conditions for root growth.

If you really want to improve root growth then work on the things above.
As Jim has said already there is no magic formula or short cut.
Understand the processes, get the environment right and conduct sound horticultural practices and your trees will thrive.






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Of course if you really want to get to the bottom of this you could set up your own experiment at home.
However, to make this statistically relevant you will need a lot of cheap plant material.
You will need to apply some scientific rigour so that your observations remain unbiased.
You will need to find an objective method of measuring the growth response. In the past this has meant the destruction of the plants as the roots are removed, washed, dried and weighed. However, I suppose you could measure internodal extension as an indicator to root growth.
Not easy but achievable.