Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

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Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  KimchiMonger on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:07 pm

Finally acquired a Texas Ebony close to what I had envisioned! Woo hoo! Oh yeah baby! Oh yeah! cheers

No surprise I'm drawn to this variety as they look similar to another favorite of mine Black Olive (Bucida spinosa). This Texas Ebony is 21" high and 20" across. I took a couple of photos here for any input on it's potential and future styling in a year or two maybe?

Thank ya'll for any suggestions and comments.






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Texas Ebony

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:49 pm

It is premature to think of styling this tree yet. It looks weak, with a lot of dead or leafless twigs.
I suggest you plant it in the ground & feed it heavily for a year, then we can talk about styling. If you have no ground available, put it in a big grow box or bulb pan in coarse soil, feed it heavily & give it lots of sun.
Iris

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Texas Ebony

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:51 pm

PS
Make sure you leave the top of the nebari a little exposed, so you don't get reverse taper.
Iris

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  KimchiMonger on Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:42 am

Iris,

Into a grow box it goes and steady feeding regimen. Thanks for the advice as I'd like to see this little one get stronger and grow! Very Happy

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:07 am

Little confusing, is that a Texas Ebony [ Was Pithecellobium Flexicaule now E something ] or a Bucida Spinosa ?

I left an image of the Texas Ebony in the bonsai forum. They like full sun and a freely draining soil.That one used to be very thin as the trunk went, years ago.
Khaimraj

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  KimchiMonger on Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:56 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Little confusing, is that a Texas Ebony [ Was Pithecellobium Flexicaule now E something ] or a Bucida Spinosa ?

It's Texas Ebony - the species is re-classified as Ebenopsis ebano in the Fabaceae or Legume family. The leaves and zig-zag branches look just like Bucida spinosa.

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:28 am

Kimchi Monger wrote "It's Texas Ebony - the species is re-classified as Ebenopsis ebano in the Fabaceae or Legume family. The leaves and zig-zag branches look just like Bucida spinosa."

Texas Ebony and Bucida spinosa (Bahamian Black Olive) are not similar. And IMHO very different for bonsai. I have had a Texas Ebony for over 20 years and it is still a very, thorny stick in a pot. Their leaf and growth habit are very different. Texas Ebony is more like Brazillian Raintree, but without the interesting trunk. I can not recall ever seeing a Tezas Ebony bonsai in a Florida show.

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:58 pm

Billy,

Texas ebony is dofficult, but not impossible. Give me a few more years and a few more bumps.
This also was a stick in 1982 or so, and it was neglected for years.
Khaimraj


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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  KimchiMonger on Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:16 pm

Wow Bill!

Thanks for the photo and information. Very informative and Wow! again to that tree of yours. I can see as the branches and trunk thicken, they don't resemble the black olive. Thanks for the inspirational photo.

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:52 pm

I will try to post photos of Texas Ebony and Bucida spinosa.


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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:54 pm

The two photos above are of Texas Ebony. One the entire very frustrating plant and the other a leaf detail. Note the typical Legume type compound leaf. The seed is also bean like. (none in photos)

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:58 pm




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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:04 pm

Captions for three photos above.
1. I really like this Bucida spinosa, it is about 2 feet tall.
2. This is leaf detail on the tree above. The leaves grow from a central point in a whirl.
3. This is a smaller Bucida spinosa, probably about 6 inches.

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  KimchiMonger on Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:55 am

As a follow up, I did have to treat the Texas Ebony with a little Safer when I found a few wooley aphids! OH MY GOD! affraid CALLED NT'L GUARD, LOCAL SHERIFF, AND ANYONE WITH ONE DAY MORE EXPERIENCE THAN I. Water sprayed trees down the next morning before watering and fertilizing. Came home this evening to find the aphids gone but will keep an eye on this matter as they are likely to return in a few days depending on egg situation etc. I plan on letting it be for another couple of years to see how it comes along before doing anything else with this one.

Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to post these photos of Bucida spinosa since that topic was brought up.

This month 9/01/10 I visited the Dallas World Aquarium where I was delighted to see Bucida spinosa towering some 10 and 20 feet throughout their rain forest! I've attached a photo of one below and the little one in a pot is mine.

Now, that two footer of yours is an eye opener! Shocked I also loved the shape of that third one with a flatter top a little reminescent of flat top Acacia species. Your photos show very good strong trees and I don't know why I'm drawn to these varieties but they are super! Yeah, that two footer upright is very nice and the foliage pads look gorgeous. Interesting how the trunk maintained the slight tell-tale zig-zag pattern.

Below is the photo of that 15 something foot Bucida spinosa and my little one in a pot which was more than half dead when I purchased it.






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Bucida spinosa (was Texas Ebony)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:35 am

In South Florida I have observed. at least, three variations of Bucida, mostly in leaf size. One is called Shady Lady and has the largest leaves, there was one of these on a pond near our daughters home in Sunrise, west of Ft. Lauderdale. I also have a Shady Lady Bucida still in a 12 inch bulb pan, this tree is over 30 years old and its trunk isn't much larger than one inch.

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  bonsaistud on Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:17 am

Khaimraj is right Kimchi...give this T Ebony at least 5 years...preferably 10 years...in a grow box. I suspect my friend, that at your age (?) you could afford 10 years.

Patience...it would be well worth it...

Pat...mounted on my trusty steed, riding of wildly in all directions...

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  KimchiMonger on Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:24 am

bonsaistud wrote:Khaimraj is right Kimchi...give this T Ebony at least 5 years...preferably 10 years...in a grow box.

Thanks for the suggestion as it'll keep my eager hands away and allow nature to work it's magic. It does have to strengthen and grow a lot. Must admit it's just a level above that stick in a pot compared to photos graciously posted by Khaimraj and Billy Rhodes. So, with the experienced advice and photos, the student understands like never before. Your contributions are well received and acted upon. ThumbsUp

I've found a home with this T. Ebony, Bucida spinosa, and similar trees for some reason. And the thought of nurturing them in grow boxes for years to come excites me! I'm quite fine with letting specimens of this and similar size to continue developing without immediate chopping and styling. They sure look great.

Interestingly enough, although not a Fengshui fan myself, thorny bonsai and tree varieties are considered bad luck and hinder personal growth. Well too bad for me as I love these fine and beautiful creations very much.

I also picked up a couple of 8 in. T. Ebony online that are going into a medium pot as I want to experience and document their growth over years to come. Will be satisfying to watch them grow year after year.

Unfortunate so much of the T. Ebony population was wiped out back in the big freeze of '89 when McAllen, TX dropped to about 17 degrees. I was there and recall how bitterly cold that was to the Valley with it's tropical climate and mild winters as compared to the rest of the country. Since then, those appreciating T. Ebony have done great work in propagating this great species. And of course, nature has allowed for it's continued growth since then.



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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:10 pm

Kimichi,

with time those thorns fall off or you can simply remove them. To be frank, I haven't noticed me falling or branches falling on me whenever I approach the Texas ebony. Laughing

I will post a bucida for you later on today.

With the Texas ebony, I use clip and grow, and allowing branches to extend to ridiculous lengths - 5 to 10 feet. Also, I discovered a while ago, that this tree and most trees respond well to freely draining soil mixes, placement in sunlight and if a tree is drought toleration in a pot, what that means is deeper than average pot. Deeper pots than average translates into roots in nature travelling miles to get moisture.
I used to think it meant shallow pot is equal to drought tolerant.

I depend very heavily on crushed sifted red brick. On my side bricks are hollow clay blocks and porous.
This allows the water to soak into the brick and then be slowly absorbed by the fine hairs of the root.
[ please note I did these soil mix tests so long ago, this may not be what really happens - the science part - and the guy I loaned my notes to lost them.]

Anyhow, the crushed fired clay in discarder heaps will grow many green things healthily, with nothing more than the heap of fired clay.
I also use the larger particles to condition my vegetable soils.
It is also supposed that sharp particles force a root to continuously sub-divide, and this is reflected in the branching above [ science - not sure.]
Until the image.
Khaimraj

* I also have a Texas Persimmon.

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:54 pm

Kimchi this is the only Bucida I have as a pre-bonsai. I have lost interest, perhaps next year I will start again. Possibly 18 years old. About 12 inches tall.
Khaimraj





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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:07 pm

This tree has potential, repotted, fertilized and pruned it would really pick up.

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:40 pm

Billy thanks for the encouragement, so much so here is a possible design. I still have to grow a sacrificial branch to trunk thicken - hmm.

A quick ballpoint pen sketch.
I have marked off the designs most important negative spaces. These are what invite the eye to keep looking.[ Oil painting technique - see Titian or Rubens.] I am envisioning a tree in the swamp or lowlands on a hillock.

Aren't photographs horrible, they always show the trees as flat. Will probably have to do an overhead and sides to illustrate that this tree, has volume already.

Anyhow, I have tried to show the clumps and how they fall in front and behind each other. As well as the stork's leg with multiple v's to form the bowl shape on a branch [ domes.]
As well as the visual weight of the tree on a long narrow pot.

Will this happen - who knows ?
3 to 5 years later.........................
Khaimraj


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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  KimchiMonger on Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:51 am

Khaimraj,

Great sketch and vision for the tree. Given the material you've nurtured, you have a great piece of work already and certainly your sketch is ambitious but realistic I think. I'd be excited to have such a tree as it is now! thumbs up

Recently I came across these two little seedlings on Ebay and won! Well, actually no one but me bid on them which was quite fine with me Wink

Will be great to watch them grow for another ten-fifteen years and beyond. Ridiculous how difficult it is to find Texas Ebony while living in Texas!!!

I'm already making plans to acquire seeds and germinate my own for future years supply.

Look at those two. Sitting there looking pretty. Just look at them.

Will ya just look at them! Sittin' there like that looking so smart and pretty.... Wink




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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:04 am

Kimchi,

did the Bonsai Farm around San Antonio close down [ Sorge'] ?
That's where my Texas Ebony came from.
Folk in Texas are very kind and generous, I was also gifted with Texas Ebony seed by Texans through the mail.

Anyhow your problem is solved, Texas Ebony also grows by cuttings. Remember freely draining soil.

Now all you need is the Texas type of the Fukien Tea and the Texas Persimmon. Smile

If you ever need any help again, just ask.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

*There is also a Texas Sage - Eehah!!

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  KimchiMonger on Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:04 am

I'm not surprised at my attraction to this type of tree with it's branching somewhat similar to Bucida spinosa. The leaves and bark I find one of the most beautiful I've ever seen with it's complimenting thorns.

The original Ebony is back budding well following it's transplant into a grow pot! Little leaves showing up here and there. Temps in the mid 50's here at night and mid 80's during the day. Will bring them in by the large patio window mid Fall when temps get much colder.

Below are new pics of the backbudding larger Ebony and little one's that showed up in the mail.












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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:52 pm

Going guns Kimichi. My own has since thrown out quite a few new shoots, so I am pinching again. If I get a chance I'll send an image this evening as well.

Should we form some sort of Texas Ebony cult or what ? Laughing

50 to 80 what a range of temperature. By Christmas we might make 50 to 90 on a rare day in my bamboo surrounded garden, 50 for maybe 2 or 3 hours.
Until.
Khaimraj

*Tried Hackberries at all ?
Mine are being grown for larger trunks and should be showing signs of needing to sleep. They will be dug up and moved to a cold corner soon.

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Re: Texas Ebony (Future styling suggestions?)

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