in the pot or over the rock

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in the pot or over the rock

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:08 am

Hi IBC friends,
got this young ficus i grew in a typical cascade pot. its ready for styling, i got bored in the outcome so im planning to clasp it over a rock, penjing style... any comment is most welcome. should it stay in the pot or not?

in the pot


the rocks.



the other concept on the rock, minus my shirt . the roots of this ficus are long some already reached the bottom of the pot so there is no problem with roots reaching the new pot and soil medium.

regards,
jun

Smile

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Smithy on Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:23 am

On the rock I say Smile

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  my nellie on Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:39 am

Make it double! Very Happy

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  cram on Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:21 am

i dont know if its possible to make it stay without falling
but it s an idea
not really also ficus shaped but....who cares? Smile [img][/img]

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Mike Jones on Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:33 am

x3 for the rock.

Mike

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:20 am

Smithy,
Alexandra,
Mike,
Cram, (it wont fall over.) thanks for the sketch! i'll try to do it.


Well have it on the rock then! thank you guys.

i'll post it again in a few days time. scotch is on me...on the rock, please!

regards,
jun

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  my nellie on Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:28 am

My ignorance's question, though....
Could you perhaps diminish the height of rock by cutting a slice from it's bottom, Jun?
For reasons concerning the better stability of the tree.
Or do you prefer to keep all the features of the stone instead?

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:35 am

Alexandra,

that would be ok.
but if you look closely to the bottom of the rock, thats where most of the rock's character is.
im looking for a long term relationship with this ficus on the rock, when the trunk and roots becomes bigger and the trunk matures it will have a more balance look.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  my nellie on Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:07 am

Thanks for responding.
Good Luck with your Ficus over Rock! Smile

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:33 pm

I vote for the rock too.

One thing you can try is to cement a base to the rock using portland cement. The cement base would be under the soil and stable. I have done this and it works well.


Last edited by Rob Kempinski on Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  fiona on Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:35 pm

The rocks definitely rocks for me too, Jun.

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Neil Jaeger on Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:53 pm

Yes, rock on my friend, rock on.

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Todd Ellis on Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:56 pm

LIKE A ROCK!!!!! Bagpiper Bagpiper Bagpiper
The current pot is too confining for this tree. The rock you have selected already gives the impression of a high cliff/craggy mountain. You may end up reducing the length of the main cascading branch to enhance the scale. A fun project!
Todd

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:10 pm

Alexandra,

thanks.

regards,
jun Smile


Rob,

thanks. il do that.

regards,
jun Smile


Fiona,

thanks. il do the rock 'en roll! babhy. Bagpiper ( no Elvis the rocker here, guess the bagpiper smiley will do)

regards,
jun


Neil,
thanks.
il do my friend! il do it the rocker style my man!

regards,
jun Bagpiper scratch


Todd,
thanks.
i didnt you you were a rocker too 'Elvis todd' (catchy isnt it?)! il try to find more suitable pot.

regards,
jun Bagpiper

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Pot or Rock

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:33 pm

I have a question. Do Ficus (which species is it?) ever actually grow that way? I have the impression that a Ficus in that situation would eventually fuse right to the rock. Call me a fanatical purist, but I am always uncomfortable with species grown in a style that is not their nature. Yes, I know it is an art, and you can style it any way the tree will tolerate. Just one cranky person's opinion. No
After writing this, I Googled some photos & gave it more thought.
The cascade style for temperate trees, especially conifers, represents a tree on a cliff where it is repeatedly battered down by snow, heavy rain, and rockslides. Ficus in tropical rock habitats tend to grow upward with their roots in rock crevices.
There are many tropical species that are grown in cascade style. I guess it's a matter of taste.
Iris


Last edited by bonsaisr on Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:03 pm

Iris,

its ficus pilippinensis. other than art, ficus really loves to cling and grows in rocks. the trick Iris here is to limit the volume mass of the roots that clasp the rock as the roots and trunk matures in life in order to avoid the entire rock being engulfed by the root mass. its just like branch selection only downward approach. i have some of these styles in my collection with mature roots, il post it soon.

regards,
jun
Smile

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Smithy on Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:32 pm

bonsaisr wrote:I have a question. Do Ficus (which species is it?) ever actually grow that way? I have the impression that a Ficus in that situation would eventually fuse right to the rock. Call me a fanatical purist, but I am always uncomfortable with species grown in a style that is not their nature. Yes, I know it is an art, and you can style it any way the tree will tolerate. Just one cranky person's opinion. No
After writing this, I Googled some photos & gave it more thought.
The cascade style for temperate trees, especially conifers, represents a tree on a cliff where it is repeatedly battered down by snow, heavy rain, and rockslides. Ficus in tropical rock habitats tend to grow upward with their roots in rock crevices.
There are many tropical species that are grown in cascade style. I guess it's a matter of taste.
Iris

Why set yourself limits.
Are you saying he shouldn't do it because it doesn't happen in nature.

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:38 pm

bonsaisr wrote:I have a question. Do Ficus (which species is it?) ever actually grow that way? I have the impression that a Ficus in that situation would eventually fuse right to the rock. Call me a fanatical purist, but I am always uncomfortable with species grown in a style that is not their nature. Yes, I know it is an art, and you can style it any way the tree will tolerate. Just one cranky person's opinion. No
After writing this, I Googled some photos & gave it more thought.
The cascade style for temperate trees, especially conifers, represents a tree on a cliff where it is repeatedly battered down by snow, heavy rain, and rockslides. Ficus in tropical rock habitats tend to grow upward with their roots in rock crevices.
There are many tropical species that are grown in cascade style. I guess it's a matter of taste.
Iris

It's art so anything is possible and when considering the amazing diversity in nature doesn't pose many restrictions.

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In the Pot or on the rock

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:35 pm

Smithy wrote:
Are you saying he shouldn't do it because it doesn't happen in nature?
Not really. I wouldn't be that dogmatic. Let's say I was playing devil's advocate. Evil or Very Mad
I happen to prefer bonsai that look like a tree you might find in nature.
Funny, I'm fine with Picasso, Dali, and all the other modern artists. I just have this feeling about bonsai.
I remember the American elm in all its glory. American elm is still found here & there & used for bonsai. I have a hissy fit when it is styled like a Chinese elm instead of its own style. I'd love to get Walter Pall's input in this discussion.
Iris

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  my nellie on Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:48 pm

bonsaisr wrote: ... ... I happen to prefer bonsai that look like a tree you might find in nature.
Funny, I'm fine with Picasso, Dali, and all the other modern artists. I just have this feeling about bonsai... ...
This is my feeling, too, dear Iris.
But the cascading ficus of Jun is existing as it is. Between the ficus cascade into the pot and the ficus cascading over the rock, which one do you prefer?

bonsaisr wrote: ... ... I'd love to get Walter Pall's input in this discussion.
I believe many more and not only you would be interested, Iris. Very Happy
I'm one of those.

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:58 pm

in creating bonsai i have these rules that I follow.

Rule Number:
1. it should be beautiful today and it should be even more beautiful in the future
2. Rule number 1 must supersede all other rules in bonsai
3.it should look natural
4. other rules
5. etc....

regards,
king scratch
jun

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Smithy on Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:34 am

bonsaisr wrote:
Smithy wrote:
Are you saying he shouldn't do it because it doesn't happen in nature?
Not really. I wouldn't be that dogmatic. Let's say I was playing devil's advocate. Evil or Very Mad
I happen to prefer bonsai that look like a tree you might find in nature.
Funny, I'm fine with Picasso, Dali, and all the other modern artists. I just have this feeling about bonsai.
I remember the American elm in all its glory. American elm is still found here & there & used for bonsai. I have a hissy fit when it is styled like a Chinese elm instead of its own style. I'd love to get Walter Pall's input in this discussion.
Iris

I still don't think you can limit yourself, we all like bonsai that that look like 'real' trees, but who has seen all the trees in the world. Every microclimate grows a different tree.

Here is an ash in a pot which you could say doesn't look like a tree and never will when it matures.



Here is an ash in nature, shall i tell it it doesn't look like a 'real' tree.


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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  Guest on Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:05 am

Rob and Cram,

how about this as substitute for cement as adhesive for stability of the rock?



lifted with pot under.


my adhesive. will occupy small portion of the pot needed for soil. volume less as much as 70%.
tough and will last a life time...



top this tough! rock under -weighs 8.5kls




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Re: in the pot or over the rock

Post  rexman on Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:41 am

hi jun, is that just plain 2-part epoxy?

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Re: in the pot or over the rock

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