Cotoneaster questions..

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Cotoneaster questions..

Post  DreadyKGB on Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:43 am

Hey,
I am wondering about cotoneaster as I just acquired a decent soon to be shohin sized nursery tree. For now my first question is whether it is too late in the season(zone 5) to carry out heavy pruning? And for the spring how severe a root reduction(percentage wise) will cotoneaster accept without adversely affecting the trees health? It is currently in a 2 gallon nursery pot and seems reasonably healthy. I will post a picture as soon as I take one. Thanks.

Todd

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Cotoneaster

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:24 am

You can probably do your pruning & styling now. Repot next spring. According to Pauline Muth, at least some of the cotoneasters require reducing the roots very gradually. And I find they need frequent spraying for blackspot. My experience is mainly with 'Tom Thumb.'
Iris

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  JimLewis on Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:18 pm

I agree with Iris.

As for root pruning, it's a pretty good idea on the first repot of a plant you're not familiar with to remove as few roots as you can get away with.

Cut the larger ones. Remove about 20% next year.

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  DreadyKGB on Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:04 pm

Thanks,
I was planning to do some cutting and styling now, but wanted to check about the timing first. I'm glad that your thoughts coincide with mine as I would have been chewing my fingers off trying to wait til next spring. I have read that a 30% reduction works well. I also haven't yet looked at the root mass, so I don't know exactly how full the pot is. With nursery stock I usually assume its severely root bound. I'll post a pic of it later today.

Todd

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  JimLewis on Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:09 pm

I would have been chewing my fingers off trying to wait til next spring.

Understandable, I suppose, but perhaps the most important thing bonsai teaches us is patience.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  DreadyKGB on Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:40 pm

Hey,
The variety is Cotoneaster apiculatus. For $7 I couldn't pass it up.

Here's a pic of the tree after pruning.



P.S. Jim I am working on the patience thing. I have gotten much better, but I still need to work at it.

Todd

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  Seth Ellwood on Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:28 am

Nice start to a shohin you have there .I would look to next springs back budding to come up with a few more branches and remove a few that are currently on the tree for a final design.

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  my nellie on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:57 am

I feel so.... unwisely hurry-scurry Embarassed
I should have searched beforehand...
Well, I bought a cotoneaster from a nursery and made the repoting yersterday. It was a clump and it could be divided in two parts, so I decided immediately to do so BUT it had to be bare rooted...
.... memorial of a death announcement in advance...

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Cotoneaster questions

Post  sunip on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:34 pm

Hi Tod,
Nice catch, my experience is that they certainly not like being bare rooted.
Your tree seems to have a nice nerbari.
Alexandra, keep him out of the frost and mist the leaves a few times a day,
(watch the soil not getting to wet while misting) i hope for the best.
regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  my nellie on Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:46 pm

Dear Sunip, Thank you very much for the encouragement!
In fact there are no leaves on the branches, they're waiting the spring to emerge.

I am considering to "envelope" the pots into black plastic bags and then if there are any signs of coming back to life I will shift to transparent bags. I have done this before with some cuttings and it did have good results as the cuttings have given leaflets soon.
What would you suggest on this?

Thank you!


PS: Dear Todd, I do apologise for hacking into your thread... but I believe you can benefit too from the responses Embarassed


Last edited by my nellie on Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding ps)

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  bonsai monkey on Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:20 pm

Hi Todd,
Lovely little peice of material, and the price OMG!!!

I can't comment too much on re-potting etc (as I come from the UK and our seasons are out of sync) but you will find that Cotoneasters put on bucket loads of roots in one growing season and you can be quite ruthless come re-potting time. They are pretty bullet proof to and back bud really well. Although shunned by some people they make cracking trees in a very short space of time (as long as you have a good starter tree - which you have!).

Wishing it was on my benches,
Love, Peace & Bananas,
Simon

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  DreadyKGB on Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:55 pm

Hey all,
Thanks for the comments. I am eagerly awaiting spring so I can start working on the root mas of this one, its currently still in its 2 gallon nursery pot. Part of why I decided on this one was because the nebari looked reasonably good, well see what lies beneath the soil come spring. Don't worry about hijacking the thread, you've brought it back to life and I can use all the info I can get.

Todd

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  JimLewis on Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:55 pm

DreadyKGB wrote:Hey,
The variety is Cotoneaster apiculatus. For $7 I couldn't pass it up.

Here's a pic of the tree after pruning.



P.S. Jim I am working on the patience thing. I have gotten much better, but I still need to work at it.

Todd

Wow! Very nice find. You might want to put some wire on those straight branches -- especially the second up on the right, and that straight thin one just before the apex. Also, you might want to consider whether that branch just behind that apex branch might be a bit thick for that point in the tree. These plants are like elms, if you cut ALL the branches off (NOT recommending that!) they will sprout copiously, so there's no need for an out-of-proportion branch.

You are going to have a class act here, one day.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  bonsai monkey on Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:27 pm

JimLewis wrote:Wow! Very nice find. You might want to put some wire on those straight branches -- especially the second up on the right, and that straight thin one just before the apex. Also, you might want to consider whether that branch just behind that apex branch might be a bit thick for that point in the tree. These plants are like elms, if you cut ALL the branches off (NOT recommending that!) they will sprout copiously, so there's no need for an out-of-proportion branch.

I'd suggest making these changes - Red for Chop, Yellow for Wire



I hope this helps!!
Ook, Ook,
Simon

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  sunip on Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:11 pm



Hi Todd,
I also would do something about those two right branches.
The lowest i would cut where the yellow arrow is pointing ( a bit lower)
and work with the little branch behind that is left.
The right branch above it, i would try to wire down.
When you cut the lower branch there there will be likely new sprouts at the base of it where you can work with.
Hi Alexandra,
Mine are still with leaves, but mind you i found about 45 varieties at our local nursery all decidious.
They do no wintergreen cotoneaster because of some problems with a sickness.
On the question of plastic bags, i am not quit sure, be careful to give them some air to under that plastic cover.
regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  coh on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:07 pm

That's a really nice little trunk there! Great find.

Here's another contoneaster question. I have a very small "Tom Thumb" that was acquired in a class in the fall...we did repotting (major root work), trimming and some wiring. At the time, the plant was going into dormancy...foliage was already turning red, and it all turned/dropped within a couple of weeks. Since it wasn't the best season for doing all that work, we were advised to keep it indoors for the first winter.

Well, of course it started growing after a month or so. But the problem is that the leaves come out fine, then in fairly short order (a couple of weeks or so), they tend to get brown spots, then turn red and drop...while more then come out. So it doesn't seem to be able to really produce/maintain a substantial foliage mass. I have it under flourescents with some tropicals that are doing very well, so I think it's getting enough light...suspect roots and/or watering as an issue. Though I also wonder if it could be a fungal issue, since someone mentioned them as being susceptible to blackspot. Any thoughts/suggestions? It's a very small plant , 4 inches in height.

Chris

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:42 pm

Hello Chris. Maybe the problem is that your treating it as an indoor tree, when it should be allowed to go dormant and live outside.

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  coh on Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:59 pm

Will, I do understand that it is a deciduous species that should have a prolonged dormant period, and in the future (providing it survives) it will. However, as I said, we were instructed to keep it inside for the first winter, so it's too late to do anything about that (the class was in October, so it was out of season to be doing all that work). Perhaps the response it's exhibiting is to be expected? I don't know...

Chris

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  Paul Landis on Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:04 pm

Normally, when told to keep things inside after fall work what is meant is to not let things freeze. Things I have worked late in the season go in an attached garage which maintains around 38F all winter. Cold enough for them to go dormant but not cold enough to do any damage.

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Cotoneaster question

Post  sunip on Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:10 pm

will baddeley wrote:Hello Chris. Maybe the problem is that your treating it as an indoor tree, when it should be allowed to go dormant and live outside.
Hi Chris,
I think Will is right there only when you did in fall as you discribed, the tree is better protected from any frost
but not in a heated hous, one should think of a frost free green house or something.
The sicknes i mentioned earlier is fire blight, but in this case i don't think it is the cause.
Good luck with the tree, you are in the same boat as Alexandra there.
regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  coh on Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:17 pm

I'll have to get clarification to see whether I misinterpreted "indoors". My normal inclination (I've grown plants for many years, so I'm not a complete novice in that regard) would have been, as you said, to keep it dormant but above freezing...but since I didn't do that, I'm pretty sure we were told "in the house". That's how I remember it, but in any case, what's done is done. We'll see what happens.

Thanks for the thoughts,

Chris

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Cotoneaster Questions

Post  bonsaisr on Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:17 pm

The winter still has a long way to go. I suggest you move the cotoneaster to as cool a location as possible but above freezing. An enclosed porch, a mudroom, an unheated guest room, anything like that. Unfortunately, it is not dormant, so it will need light. I can't imagine that any of the Rochester experts would have told you to keep it indoors, i. e., in the house at room temperature.
Iris

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  William N. Valavanis on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:24 pm

Chris,

Spray the plant with a fungicide, that is probably the problem here.

You did not misunderstand my instructions. I suggested you keep the plant in the house for the first winter. I can show you superb cotoneaster, and also juniper bonsai grown indoors under lights for 40 years, NEVER been outdoors. Jack Wikle has been growing some of his smaller bonsai like this for decades.

When the weather gets better, May in Rochester, put the plant outdoors in the shade, then slowly into the sun.

Good luck!

Bill

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  coh on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:44 pm

Thanks Bill, appreciate the feedback. Glad to hear that I remembered correctly!

Chris

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

Post  Paul Landis on Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:38 am

Well there it is then!!! LOL Always something to learn!!! Bill is indeed correct...the shohin and mame that Jack Wickle has always grown under light are stunning!! Amazing , in fact!!

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Re: Cotoneaster questions..

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