Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  Charlie2700 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:03 am

I posted pictures, JIM, here at this forum page.
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/bonsai-questions-f7/indoor-dormancy-and-repotting-of-chinese-elm-under-t5-lighting-t3798.htm#37876


For me, it was easier to post a link as after successfully posting the first 2 pics that you did not see I had some issues trying to duplicate my previous success. So..in order to get the pictures accessible for the forum I simply posted links. Anyway..no harm no foul.. I checked that the links worked and felt I had made a proper and meaningful contribution to the forum. You have to admit it's been a lively thread! Moreover I've learned new stuff about Bonsai...win - win ...

"if all world do Bonsai then.....no more war"

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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  Seth Ellwood on Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:48 am

Personally if you want this tree to be all it can be and not in the army I would place it out side from spring to fall then you will not have to worry about spending extra money in electricity for the t5 lighting and it will naturally go dormant due to the solstice.It will also benefit greatly from natural sun light (you can never duplicate mother) in intensity and health . I reccomend you look at as many exampels of elm as you can and try to form an idea of your own as to the way you think the tree should be styled.

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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  Charlie2700 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:12 pm

Thanks Seth for your comments. In the original post to this thread I explained why my tree must be kept indoors 24/7. Without belaboring the point I already articulated a week or more ago this Elm is remaining indoors. The T5 lamp only consumes 24W of power and as such having my PC on all day adds much more to my electric bill than this tiny 2ft long - 5/8 inch diameter flourescent tube. I certainly do AGREE with everyone else in this thread who have commented, that ALL plants and trees (not just Bonsai) should be grown outdoors IF one wants maximum vitality for them. I also agree, as you point out, you can't do better than mother nature's sunlight, weather and seasonal changes that triggers all of nature year round. It's the "real thing"....no debate here. However Seth, ideal and even natural conditions are not always possible in our human lifestyles when it comes to adding other living things into our life and domiciles. Birds were never meant to be caged and fish never meant to live in aquariums. In like manner a Chinese Elm (and ALL plants, trees, etc) belong OUTSIDE for thier best opportunities for vibrant health and survival. With that said, we would lose a lot of life's wonder and beauty in our daily lives and in our living spaces if we enforced that axiom rigidly and without exception. To do so in my opinion would be to take the 'Purist's stance' on this matter, that while true and accurate..it is not always ideally practical. In my personal Bonsai pursuit I have found a great attachment and a strong caring and loving relationship to my tree. I've had this Chnese Elm a little over 6 months. It is 'family' now. Moreover, in my opinion at least, having my Bonsai indoors affords me a much greater opportunity to be 'with my tree' and to enjoy it than if it was on the patio, balcony, backyard or greenhouse. In that respect indoor Bonsai well outshines 'outside-only' Bonsai. It is also safe from mother nature who can, on a seeming whim and with little or no warning, be cruel, brutal, and downright deadly to all of life in general. Another plus (+) in my opinion for indoor Bonsai. So I must adapt to it's needs and it must someway co-habitat with me. So far so good. Thank you for your thoughtful comments.



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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  Kev Bailey on Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:24 pm

A nurseryman that sells Chinese Elms and tells you that they can be kept indoors, is doing it because that is how he makes a living. It is also how the majority of newcomers to bonsai are put off, when despite all the advice their tree ups and dies. The salesman sees a chance to make another sale. Bonsai however has often lost another enthusiast.

I note that Brussels do NOT list Chinese Elm as an indoor variety.

I still can't see a reason for why yours must remain indoors in your initial post.


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Dormancy, etc.

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:15 am

Charlie2700 wrote:I've had this Chnese Elm a little over 6 months. It is 'family' now. Moreover, in my opinion at least, having my Bonsai indoors affords me a much greater opportunity to be 'with my tree' and to enjoy it than if it was on the patio, balcony, backyard or greenhouse.
Sorry to continue to disagree. Keeping your tree indoors is not the equivalent of keeping fish in an aquarium. It is more like trying to keep fish on dry land. Your tree is thriving so far because it is not time for dormancy yet. You are like the man who jumped off a 20 story building. As he fell past the tenth floor, he said,"so far, so good." Tell us how your tree is doing a couple of years from now.
The answer to wanting to keep your tree indoors near you is to own half a dozen bonsai. You keep them outdoors in an appropriate location and rotate them indoors one at a time.
Iris

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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  Seth Ellwood on Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:15 am

Thanks for the thoughful reply charlie I understand where you are coming from I was there once as well. I think you might also want to look in to the ficus species for indoor as well they can tolerate it a little better than the elm can.and usually do not require a dormant period.Good luck with the elm I hope it flourishes for you.

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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  Charlie2700 on Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:58 pm

Here is my one reply that addresses Iris and Kev....

Kev: Then reread the post. It's in there. FYI I really get no thrill from retyping. It's moot anyway Kev...

Iris: Thank you for your comments. Our continuing dialog is a distraction from my gentle and simple life. Peace.


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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  Charlie2700 on Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:09 pm

Seth Ellwood wrote:Thanks for the thoughful reply charlie I understand where you are coming from I was there once as well. I think you might also want to look in to the ficus species for indoor as well they can tolerate it a little better than the elm can.and usually do not require a dormant period.Good luck with the elm I hope it flourishes for you.

Thank you Seth,
I've already begun scouting for knowledge on Ficus. After I visit the Bonsai nursery a couple weeks from now, that I previously posted about, and get more info on his personal residential Chinese Elms that he claims have thrived indoors 24/7 for 6 years, I intend to forego a Ficus purchase/caregiver-comittment for now. I'm still a beginner and until I wade through this indoor/outsdoor quagmire of Bonsai debate I'm in a holding pattern on any additional trees. I would like to eventually Bonsai a native tree species. Plenty trees in Arkansas! Also TY for the good luck wishes...

"if all world do Bonsai then....no more war"

Charlie2700
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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  fiona on Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:29 pm

Charlie2700 wrote: Kev: Then reread the post. It's in there. FYI I really get no thrill from retyping. It's moot anyway Kev...

Actually it's not in your original post - it appears in your third post. If that was the "prince" in your argument, then we had to kiss a lot of frogs to get to it.

I'm sorry but this entire thread is beginning to irritate me beyond belief. It became very apparent early on that despite asking for our advice, you were hell bent on using these lights despite what anyone said. That is your prerogative; if it works for you then good for you and I wish you long and continued success. But please just have the decency to accept that what you are doing is against the tide of conventional wisdom - wisdom acquired for most of us after many years of experimenting and asking questions from those who have experimented before us. I am insulted by the insinuation that the rest of us as wrong. You are like the mother who, on witnessing her son on his first Boy Scout parade, remarked "They're all out of step but my Jimmy!"

Any learning process requires an open mind and a degree of humility. IMHO you have displayed neither and your obvious desire to march out of step even on the issue of posting pictures in my book stands testament to an arrogance out of proportion to ability. To ask questions in order to improve your skill and knowledge base is commendable and we welcome it. To then show almost complete disrespect of the responses makes you little other than a troll.

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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:38 pm

It is NOT in your initial post. I had to waste my time re-reading only to discover that the "reason" was that it was a gift. That isn't a reason for keeping a tree indoors and I am losing patience with this inability of yours to accept advice from people who have been doing bonsai for decades. Frankly, your attitude stinks, I already suspected a troll and now two of us moderators do I am locking this thread.

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Re: Indoor 'dormancy' and repotting of Chinese Elm under T5 lighting.

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