Why I have been so quiet the last few months

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Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  landerloos on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:28 pm

Well I am considering to quit the bonsaiscene.
Why you could ask, well at the moment I dont care much for trees and some treepeople, I'm fed up with many of the big egos out there.
I'm not quiting right now, I wait with my final desicion untill November where I will attend Burrs, I hope this (and my friend Tony and Andy)will give me the spark to continue.
Now you know why I have been posting less as I use to.

Kind regards
Peter

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Re : Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Bob Brunt on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:44 pm

Hi Peter
Sorry to hear that. Look forward to meeting you at Burrs. We will try our best to help you change your mind..Chin up !
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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  landerloos on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:59 pm

Bob Brunt wrote:Hi Peter
Sorry to hear that. Look forward to meeting you at Burrs. We will try our best to help you change your mind..Chin up !
thumbs up

Thanks mate, looking forward to meet you.

Cheers
Peter

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  eric sanders on Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:11 pm

hello Peter,

For 99% after Burrs you will continue bonsai,and that,s a good thing.
But i know what you mean about the people with there ego,s,but let them.
And don,t trow your hobby aways,in every seen there are those kind off people.
What about Burrs,i was there 2 years ago and had a great time with those people there.
you are in good company with great bonsaiíst people.

all the best with teh hobby and for now(a bit early) have a great Burrs. Wink Wink Wink

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Re: Why I have been so quite the last few months

Post  graham walker on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:08 pm

Peter, looking forward to meeting you at Burrs.
We will hopefully persuade you to continue with Bonsai
To hell with those with 'egos', I just ignore most of them
Graham

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Smithy on Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:43 pm

Hi Peter ,
Forget the people ,turn the computer off ,don't go to any shows, enjoy your family enjoy your garden and just enjoy your trees. Bonsai is about your trees and nature ooooooooooommm

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  mr treevolution on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:09 am

Hi Peter.
Just what Smithy said!
Unfortunately its human nature, whatever 'scene' / hobby / activity etc we may involve ourselves in; there are always some egotistic bigheads present ( usually the pros!). Stear around them, gleaning what you can and do YOUR thing. Learn from them and dont let em grind you down! bounce
regards Nick

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  landerloos on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:47 am

Thanks for the support,
I really apriciate it sunny

Peter

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Stone Monkey on Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:51 am

Peter

Oh Dear Me!!!!!

Well we will have to sort out your indecision at Burrs my friend. Look forward to seeing you then, keep your chin up old bean

Regards

Andy

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Smithy on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:20 pm

Peter,
I spend a lot of time on my own at work and was thinking about your post. Maybe you need to question your motives for being into Bonsai also. For me I started to grow anything at first and then got into trees. I then got into bonsai long before i had any idea that there was any kind of scene ,exhibitions ,competition let alone "stars". When i discovered there were competitions and people judged trees against each other i found it very bizarre.
If somebody with so called big ego came into my garden and called me and my trees crap and slagged me off i wouldn't give a toss. It would never in a million years make me think i would want to stop growing trees . It is too deep in me to stop. If someone chopped off one of my arms i wouldn't think of giving it up. I meet tossers all the time , i never want to give up growing.
It seems to be only in the competition world and who has the best tree that there seem to be problems. People are told to throw their tree in the bin as it will never make a great bonsai. Who cares what it will become, its that joy of seeing it progress and grow even if it is a stick in a pot.
If you love growing trees carry on.If its not really your passion to grow trees but you just want to have the best competitive trees, and somebody is slagging you and your trees off, and you don't like it ,maybe you'll have to give it up.
This post isn't meant to offend you but just trying to say it how it is for me . I don't know what is going on in your life . Just trying to make you look at why you are into bonsai and how somebody else could make you think of giving up.
Smithy


Last edited by Smithy on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Mike Jones on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:00 pm

Smithy makes some excellent points there. I thought I would post something here because I find it to many degrees quite topical of my own past years.

Twice I almost called it a day. The first time was not long after I started on Bonsai and I joined a club. Muppets Inc. I think they were called. On the second visit we were asked to take our best/favourite tree for critique from the 'experts.' They tore my tree to bits and wanted there and then to cut it to pieces. Next visit was a field collecting expedition. No permissions, and I found out they were selling the 'Yamadori' to unsuspecting nurseries.

End of that relationship.

Next was around 5 years ago. I was working all hours God sent for a company and just didn't seem to have the time and my interest went out of the window. Evolvement of life and all that. (What a load of boll**ks I now consider that part of my life.

12 Months I ago I was made redundant and I retired. Enough of working with so many egotistical idiots. I joined a Bonsai club (now some 27 years later) and spend every waking minute I can working not only with my own trees but anyone who needs some help. I'd like to take Bonsai to some other areas, hospitals, kids homes, terminally ill, mental health people etc etc. That way I would feel very satisfied that my life had some real genuine meaning.

It is only now that I have half an idea on what I am talking about regarding Bonsai (not always) and I have been invited several times to give talks with some of my trees being present as well. WI, RT, etc etc. I have to say that makes it all worthwhile, as does showing some of my collection for the very first time earlier this year. It made my day when a senior figure within Bonsai offered me a substantial figure for one of my trees.

Lately I have submitted a couple of trees to BOBB 2011 and they have been short-listed, yee-har, fingers crossed and all that.

So whilst I have had a couple of seriously rocky spells over almost three decades, I am delighted to say there is always life around the corner. Open up your thoughts on giving up...it may just be something you learn to regret later.

I've even gone one step further and asked a fellow enthusiast if he/she would consider taking on my collection when I am dead and gone. Far better they live on in someone else's care rather than die.

Oh what a wonderful pastime this is.

Mike

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Re: Why I have been so quite the last few months

Post  Guest on Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:28 pm

I think if were all honest, we all have periods of self doubt. It's human nature and integral to the learning process. I have had similar episodes as Mike has. Bad club experiences, self important bonsai "teachers" but the passion always wins out. I think you have that passion Peter, or you wouldn't be going to Burrs.Yes its good to get the recognition and respect from our peers for the work we do but ultimately, we do bonsai for our own selfish reasons. Because we LOVE it


Last edited by will baddeley on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Storm on Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:37 pm

I hope you dont quit Bonsai. I dont know you much, but it would be sad if you did. Just ignore all that slag you off, and talk s**t.
I like to watch other great trees for inspiration, but if the "masters" dont like my tree, does it matter?
Id like to compare it to something completely different. How you dress. I have a completely different style of clothes than most people. I wear black armyboots the whole year. Always black clothes ( more or less ) and long coats. I dress like its a funeral, or like its the 18-19th century. Ive been called whatever you can imagine. And heard it from people I thought were friends. If I feel like dressing like a pirate one day, I just do it. If someone has a problem with it, its their problem. My friends think im crazy. Growing trees outside in small boxes. Im outside to check them many times a day. Im like a child at christmas when I get a new pot in the mailbox. They just laugh at me. But I dont care. If I wanna do something, and enjoy doing it, I couldnt care less what others are thinking. And I think its a pitty that so many others dont do the same.
I know soo many that cares too much about others opinions that they dont like doing it anymore. But I just try to think this way:
Am I doing this for myself, or for others? If its for yourself, dont ever stop doing it. Ofcourse if you change interests because you find it boring, and you dont like to care for trees anymore, its not a point to carry on. But atleast give it your best to see if its the right thing. It would be harder to stop caring for them, and then want to continue later on.

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  my nellie on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:19 pm

will baddeley wrote: ... ... ... Yes its good to get the recognition and respect from our peers for the work we do but ultimately, we do bonsai for our own selfish reasons. Because we LOVE it
This is what everyone "not self experts" or "not self pros" should always have in mind!

Take advantage of everything they can offer, feel grateful for this, but let them be with their point of view and let yourself have your own.

And of course always keep your right to take your choice! No one can deprive you of this!

You can try to take all this trouble with philosophy and find every positive point out of this, everything that would help to improve yourself!

Kind Regards,
Alexandra.

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  bonsaistud on Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:13 pm

G'day Peter...

Good to see you back...hope it proves to be "permanent"!

Pretty much, I think, most us have been there...

Sift through this advice, and use what you can...and enjoy Burr's.

As Bob and Andy said, keep tour chin up...but...don't stick it out!

Pat

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:50 pm

Peter,

I sincerely hope your friends are able to change your mind. Let's face it, you're going to deal with schmucky people in any endeavor you try. I hate to see you bow out for that reason, and if you do you will be missed.

BTW, I love your little semi-cascade azalea!

Russell

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Dustin Mann on Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:50 am

I don't know you, as someone else had said, but the shear fact that you posted your sadness and sometimes disgust with bonsai is humble. Humility as a way of life sure appeals to me. You mentioned people with big 'Egos'. Yes, they are abundent. I actually think bonsai show judging brings out the 'worst' in human nature. I used to have a pity party for 3 days afterwards and drive my wife nuts. The ego-maniacs usually fall into a couple of categories to me; 1) bullies... they love to criticize people who are highly sensitive. 2) Social 'oddballs', kind if highly intellectual/esoteric knowledge..Aspergers Syndrome type..total geek in high school. 3) person chronic negative masking depression. They chase everyone in family away. Nothing ever seems 'right' or any serenity. If you can look at this Ego thing as self-centered fear, then it has nothing to do with you. And certainly your trees aren't rejecting your presence. Dustin Mann Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  chris on Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:09 am

Hi Peter,
I am sorry to hear of your situation, hopefully we can sort it out at Burrs. Why cant people do things for not only the love of the thing but also for the joy of meeting and knowing people, no one is better than any one else they just have a different perception or image in there head, what is needed is understanding this and for the people who can to help the people that cant to achieve it. The biggest lesson in life is to learn to listen and understand.
Burrs is special, Tony is special ( damn did I say that out loud ) Once you have experienced Burrs things will change, you might give up Bonsai but you will never give up Burrs.
Regards Chris

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  landerloos on Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:19 pm

Thank you all,

Chriss I feel a bit better know, and I started posting again. (take a look at the Wisteria)
Burrs wil be very special for me, why is it I can work along side the English so well and not my own countryman???

Peter


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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Tony on Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:35 am

HI Peter, you and I have discussed this on many occasions and I know a few folk who have jacked in Bonsai because of others. How you deal with and manage someone’s ego is the issue… No bonsai artist can make you feel inferior without your own consent... To thine own self be true, and the bonsai you create.

Smithy addresses your concerns perfectly and I support what he says however I have no problem with an ‘artists’ ego. Most of the great artists throughout history have had massive egos, Picasso, Mozart and anyone witnessing Van Morrison on a bad day… but we still love them.

Without the artist’s ego, there would be no art, and who would create anything if they thought no one would look at it? And if the artist creates what others like rather that what he likes then is it really art.

By the very nature of their art, they must have an audience, validation from others. And ultimately so must ever other artist, be they painter, sculptor, or Bonsai Sensai. What would be to point in my writing here, if no one read it?

I believe that you should create the very best bonsai possible… beat a path to the door of teachers and peers who YOU believe can help you achieve that goal.

Do not put up with mediocrity... great bonsai will ALWAYS prevail. Cool


Last edited by Tony on Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  landerloos on Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:55 am

Hi Tony, your right egos should be in every art form, you know who I am talking about.
As it turns out I am more sensitive than I thought I was, but the comments on this forum help me a lot.
I will try to burn this sentence in my head "don't let the bastards grind you down"
Of course its not only the ego that makes me doubt to continue with bonsai or not, there are some personal things going on as well, but all this mixed together......
Looking forward to Burrs though, can you pm me what I have to bring, things like sleeping bag, tools and so on....

Kind regards
Peter

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  fiona on Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:52 pm

Peter. As I mentioned offline, add to Dustin's well-crafted list, those ego-people who fear that others re coming through to take their place in case it means they themselves lose their place in some imagined "hierarchy" somewhere. I have seen this one so often in hobbies and in sports contexts where a "good" artist/craftsperson/player will constantly put down a newcomer just in case that newcomer might one day be better than them or beat them or whatever. They will try to belittle you and make you feel that you are no good. But Tony is right to say that no-one can make you feel inferior without you being part of that. Here's an analogy; someone once tried to put me down by saying "You know, Fiona, you are quite fat in places" to which I replied "That's OK. I'll just stay away from those places."

So, don't let the bastards grind you down, and yes, choose who you want to work alongside. If they're not your own countrymen so be it. As you say say you know that you can come over and
landerloos wrote:work along side the English so well
And just to end with a bit more light-hearted note -you know what's even better? At Burrs you can also get the benefit of working with all us Welsh and Scots as well! That's the real icing on the cake! Very Happy Wink thumbs up

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  landerloos on Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:26 pm

Looking forward to it Fiona.

Watch me, I'lle be back Twisted Evil

Peter

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  Guest on Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:24 pm

Seeing you are going to Burrs Peter. Have a good journey and watch out for the liquids - some guy fell out of bed in the middle of the night when I went there a few years back. Its a dangerous place Laughing I envy you a bit...

At the pic is Torben Pedersen - he could not stop after the workshop....

Regards
Morten



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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

Post  fiona on Sat Aug 14, 2010 6:55 pm

Oh that's brilliant!

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Re: Why I have been so quiet the last few months

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