Hello! :) Needin a little help

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Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  Ltg_Bonsai on Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:46 am

Well hi there, I am lincoln, im a jazz trumpet player, and today I realized I had this strange urge to immerse myself into the beautiful little (haha) world of bonsai trees. I have a few questions. I am wondering, I have a few north american pines behind the haus and I was curious if i could take a clipping from it to make a bonsai tree. also, how do i care for it? what kind of pot would be prime for keeping the bonsai in my room? Smile im really new to this, but im looking forward to learning more about this amazing art. As with jazz, I realize that the art comes with patience. Smile thanks guys, look forward to hearing from you!

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  Ltg_Bonsai on Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:58 am

oooh, ill read some other posts as not to make yall say the same stuff over and over Smile sorry bout that.

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  Ltg_Bonsai on Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:04 am

whoa... i am soooo lost right now. lol. so, no planting just yet cuz its so far into summer, an i dont really wanna get a pre-started tree, i want something that i grow that i can keep into my old age and care for. I live in indiana, and i guess the pines are not native here, so im kinda lost. i have time Smile patience. ill try an figure this out, but some suggestions would be fantastic. also, when is the prime time to begin growth?

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  DreadyKGB on Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:56 am

Lincoln,
Although I am still learning about bonsai myself I will try to help. First thoughts are that any tree growing outdoors in Indiana will most likels die quickly indoors. Also on the topic of collecting "wild" trees, i would begin by working with inexpensive nursery stock to learn about how to care for your trees. I think that if you want to get started I would browse the nurseries near you and find something that is easy to care for and that you like the look of. You could begin styling some tree species now and wait until next spring to repot. If you are looking for an indoor trees ficus are your best bet. This is a great forum to learn from and there are some other great sites with plenty of info. Bonsai4me.com has a good species guide to help you choose a tree species. Patience is key to bonsai, but you must also read, read, read. Also like playing music you must learn from your mistakes and keep on trying. Good luck.

Todd

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  JimLewis on Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:21 pm

Good advice from the KGB.

I'd add that you shold visit your local library and check out a few books on the subject and read, read, read.

Pines, by the way, are difficult to root from "clippings" (AKA cuttings).

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  Ltg_Bonsai on Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:36 pm

thanks a lot guys, looks like ill be making some visits to he nursery and turning in those overdue books Wink lol

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:08 pm

Actually, there are several pine species native to North America or naturalized here that are suitable for bonsai. However, they are not for beginners. You can't keep a bonsai in your room, even a Ficus, unless you have a very sunny windowsill. In the summer, all bonsai need to be outdoors. Have you ever grown a houseplant?
Iris

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  Ltg_Bonsai on Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:47 pm

we have several vines and flowers, and they thrive just fine in the house. I guess i see the benefit of keeping plants outdoors. haha, kind of where they belong lol. we've got a nice back yard here, so i don't see why i shouldn't jus keep it out back, especially if it opens opportunities for more beautiful bonsai.

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  DreadyKGB on Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:41 am

Jim,
Although this may change the direction of this post and probably should be on its own it something I have been wondering about. Is it possible to root pine cuttings? Or even better is it possible to airlayer them? I have many black pines around my inlaws house and there are many very nice branches, but I have not been able to find information about layering them. Any information you have would be very helpful. Thanks.

Todd

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  JimLewis on Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:52 pm

is it possible to root pine cuttings?

I have never managed to do it.

Or even better is it possible to airlayer them?

I have not tried. According to this: home.vicnet.net.au/~bonsaiau/newsletter/AirLayeringGuide.pdf
it is possible but takes a LONG time. Dirr's Manual of Woody Landscape Plants does not mention air layering as a means of propagation for black pines.

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Needin a Little Help

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:19 pm

There are a few pine varieties that can be grown from cuttings or air layers, such as the Japanese white pine 'Zuisho,' but this requires great skill. Not for beginners. I suggest you get a young pine from a nursery.
iris

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  DreadyKGB on Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:56 am

The reason that I am interested in layering of pines is because the branches I am thinking of at my inlaws' house have both well developed branching, bark, and movement as well as they hold sentimental value. My father inlaw passed away recently and he had planted all of the pine from seedlings and spent many years maintaining them and creating his own little paradise in the yard. I probably won't undertake any layering for a few years. I really have virtually no experience with pines and am a bit intimidated by them. They don't respond well to mistakes and I am still making many. Another question about pines that I have been wondering. Do pines gain trunk girth with out the need for sacrifice branches or trunk chopping? I have inspected many wonderful pines in person and seen many pictures of japanese nurseries and it always appears to be no trunk chopping involved. What are the necessary steps to gain trunk girth and taper in both 2 and 5 needle pines? Again I know I'm hijacking this post and this should probably be on its own, so sorry about that, I just saw the open door. Thanks for all your help.

Todd

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  JimLewis on Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:39 pm

Do pines gain trunk girth with out the need for sacrifice branches or trunk chopping?

Of course. but VERY, VERY slowly.

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Needin a Little Help

Post  bonsaisr on Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:44 pm

DreadyKGB wrote:The reason that I am interested in layering of pines is because the pines I am thinking of at my in-laws' house have both well developed branching, bark, and movement as well as they hold sentimental value. My father- in-law passed away recently and he had planted all of the pine from seedlings and spent many years maintaining them and creating his own little paradise in the yard.
Todd
Bonsai growers commonly seek out a particular species for just such a reason. You are not out of line. But you will probably not be able to use those specific trees. Find out what species of pine they are. Then locate a young specimen at a nursery and style it to remind you of Dad's pines. If it is a species that is commonly used for bonsai, spend a little extra and get a pre-bonsai that has been started for that purpose. Do some hunting online.
Iris

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  Kev Bailey on Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:40 pm

The Japanese certainly do use sacrifice branches in the development of girth, while the trees are developing in the ground. It is also possible to trunk chop and wire up a side branch into a new leader. By careful notching, even thick branches can be moved, so long as the sap pathway isn't compromised.

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  DreadyKGB on Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:08 am

Kev and Jim: I have seen pines where this is done but the majority i've seen don't seem to have many if any large cuts i.e. trunk chopping or the like. From what I know and have read about pine they don't back bud particularly well. As an example if I was to buy a two needle pine (nursery stock) would it be better to grow it in the ground and let it go freely and then trunk chop back to low branches (slowly over time), or to allow only limited growth and prune back even though the trunnk may have not yet reached a desirable diameter? As I said I have no plans as of yet to begin with pines, but in the future I will, when I have more knowledge and experience. Thanks.

Iris: I have thought about doing that. I definitely plan to layer a piece or two of a japanese maple (not sure on the variety) that he really loved and a branch or two from a crab apple as well. These will be next spring. I was just wondering about the possibilities with the pines as there a few amazing branches with great possibility, but hadn't really put much stock in the layer idea. They are all Austrian Black Pine, and there is one Scots pine they were planted around 30 years ago and are around 40-50 feet tall and mostly unpruned. It is less the style of the trees as a whole than it is that my piece would have come from a tree he loved and nurtured.

By the way I think I'm addicted to this forum. It is an impressive knowledge base. Thanks all.

Todd

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  Kev Bailey on Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:57 am

You are right, most don't back bud particularly well. Ideally choose a nursery tree that has good root flare, an interesting lower trunk, plenty of low branches and short distances between whorls. These branches can then be utilised to design you tree. The leader or an upper back branch can be allowed to go wild to thicken the trunk really quickly.

Treat it like a tree standing on top of a bonsai, if you see what I mean. Don't allow it to shade the lower part by judiciously removing side growths for a distance above the bonsai in the making. I am using this process for a cork bark JBP but it is still early days.

Clickon the lowest photo on this page to get a clearer view of what I'm talking about.

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Re: Hello! :) Needin a little help

Post  benibenzamin on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:06 pm

Itz better to grow plants outdoors better than indoors..
http://www.hbonsai.com/

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