New Bonsai

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Tree ID

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:55 pm

I would agree with "Zanthoxylum beecheyanum, Chinese Pepper Tree." simply because that is a species frequently sold to beginners at retail outlets.

Honestly you will very seldom if ever get a quality bonsai tree or potential bonsai tree anywhere but a specialized bonsai grower.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  Chris Cochrane on Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:29 pm

Hi Storm... The plant identification has been very interesting. Now, you open discussion that has led to consideration of repotting & artistic handling.

I am not a very good grower or artist so don't hang on my advice as factual. You might test my ideas against other threads, web articles or books-- especially in regard to re-potting. David Brunner is a trained plant professional. Billy on the Spacecoast is a seasoned bonsai grower (& perhaps, more) who often shares excellent advice. Jim Lewis has provided more advice on the Internet to bonsai enthusiasts than anyone I know and started out giving advice with more knowledge than most on IBC ~15 years, ago. Sorry, I might have forgotten earlier, seasoned contributors to the thread.

Your plant doesn't appear suffering as potted, to me. It is healthier to keep a plant in a pot nearly fitting its roots than in a much larger pot. Growing in a big container is not like growing in the ground unless the "container" is only walls containing soil (a plant bed) placed above-the-ground. Even there, a change of soil affects water requirements differently than for plants in-the-ground.

Very important for plant health is that roots do not move in the pot. The fine roots which feed the plant need to be stable. A close fitting pot with a well-arranged (chopstick-shaken for larger bonsai, perhaps wood-skewer shaken for yours) coarse soil mix helps. For a large pot, the tree would need careful stabilizing. The soil in the roots would need to be the same density as soil throughout the pot for water to not be retained close the rootball in greater saturation than at outside edges of the rootball where it is most needed. A very big pot would encourage root length rather than density & fine-root density is more healthy for the potted plant.

If growing for trunk girth, I imagine an indoor plant in Norway will require a very difficult uphill battle. It is such a nice plant that I would focus on enjoying it at the size that it is. Working on branch/foliage placement & appearance of depth will pay dividends which can be enjoyed immediately & improve over time.

The most important branch (but do not over-obsess) could be the lowest branch which conveniently is located on the outside of your bonsai's first trunk curve. That branch appears to be a little weak. It will strengthen by being given maximum light in your window. Billy & Jim would know better than I whether to let it grow or force back energy, but I think it needs all the leaves it can muster until strengthening.

Lowering the bonsai's height will give greater emphasis to its girth (even when small) as significant for a tree-form. Assuring that some branches are placed behind the tree's front to give it depth will improve the impression of a 3-dimensional tree; sometimes it requires re-thinking the best front for the tree, which also affects re-potting into a similarly sized or not too-much larger pot.

I think you have a winner in this plant for a small bonsai.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:29 pm

David Brunner wrote: Another possibility is Operculacarya decaryi, the Jabily or Madagascan Elephant Tree. It is quite common in horticulture and makes a good bonsai subject. I have posted an image of the leaves - as you can see they are superficially very similar to those of Zanthoxylum.

Storm

Your picture would even more lead me toward Chinese Pepper, probably an import with the trunk that you see. Lately, the Chinese have been exporting a lot of plants for Bonsai with that twisted and, in my opinion, unnatural look. I would be tempted to cut it off above the first or second branch and grow a Shohin. I have never seen an Operculacarya decaryi sold by a bonsai dealer I do have one and it doesn't yet have a swollen trunk either. But, if we look at the picture of a leaf from Storm's plant it seems more fleshy than my Operculacarya.
No matter what the species it is a tropical and will need a lot of winter protection. You will have to judge yourself about repotting but, as I think it was Chris that said, overpotting is a bad thing because it encourages root rot.

Billy on the Florida Space Coast

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  Storm on Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:25 pm

Thanks for the info! I have repotted all of my trees for about a week ago. I dont know if it has a good soil mix, but i hope for the best, since im so fresh in the "game". The trees seem just as fine as before the repotting. I have to think it over alot before I do anything drastic to it. I keep all of my trees inside too. In my room about 40cm from the window. I am trying to follow as many advice's as possible. They dont get any low temperatures, since its in the bedroom window.
As far as I see, I just had to pot all the trees at this time, because when they came out from their pots, they were full of clay in the roots that had hardened. I took out as much as possible. And I didnt cut back much of the roots, since I just wanted them to get just a small change at first.
Since I also lice in Norway, in a small town, its not so easyto get my hands on a good bonsai from any dealers. Almost every tree I have seen has that unnatural bend at the bottom. They are also bought at regular shops that sells other flowers mainly. One of the trees I bought were also badly dehydrated, and Im trying my best to get it back to "life"

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  greekbonsai on Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:14 pm

Boondock wrote:Zanthoxylum beecheyanum, Chinese Pepper Tree

I agree with Boondock
It is a Zanthoxylum piperitum (Sezchuan pepper tree) like the chinese receipt !
It is an indoor tree at your country (Norway) but it does very well outside in our country (Greece) Smile

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an interesting guess indeed

Post  Joe Hatfield on Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:55 am

The Zanthoxylum beecheyanum could prove to be right and so could the boxwood. We do need some better pics to really do anything with it. It could be a Ilex for all we know. I'm hot to identify a Ilex . Since I recently had 2 trees on here identified as some sort of Ilex. Smile

_regards

joe

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  matievski on Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:46 am

Does anybody knows if Zanthoxylum beecheyanum is graftable on citrus roots or may be on Glycosmis pentaphylla?
Where it is possible to get cuttings of this particular Zanthoxylum? Does anyone have it? I live in New Jersey, USA
I am desperadly looking for one looking like this:

Thanks in advance for any suggestions
With respect, Dmitri

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New Bonsai

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:37 am

First of all, Storm's tree doesn't look like Zanthoxylum. Could be Operculicarya. Even in the Norwegian climate, it should definitely be outdoors in full sun all summer, until night temperatures go below 45 F (converter not handy).
Dmitri, why would you want to graft the tree on anything? You generally can't graft a tree outside its own family.
Contact Miami Tropical Bonsai, http://www.miamitropicalbonsai.com/. They are a good source of exotic tropicals.
Iris

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  matievski on Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:49 am

I have successfully grafted Glycosmis pentafilla on lemon Meyers roots. Both of them alive and giving flowers and fruits.
Muraya Paniculata did not show that much success on citrus roots.
thanks for giving name" Operculicarya " I did not know that.

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  matievski on Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:59 pm

Resently I have got my little Zantoksilum tree :



Will keep you posted if it graftable on citrus roots in a month.

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  jrodriguez on Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:41 pm

This IS a chinese pepper tree, as cultivated in southern China, in particular Guangdong province. I have seen hundreds of fields with these.

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Re: New Bonsai

Post  matievski on Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:14 pm

Tried to graft zantoksilum on grapefruit rootstock many times - all unsuccessful.
Gives roots in 5-10% cases too. Hard to multiply it.

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Re: New Bonsai

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