Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

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Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:50 am

I started major work on this pine in a Walter Pall workshop (Richmond (VA) Bonsai Society). I decided to change the planting angle. I am thinking of a special crescent pot for this. Suggestions welcomed. Thanks, Todd

Before:


After:


Back view:

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  mike page on Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:02 am

It's difficult to make a sure judgement, but from what I see in the images you've posted, I like your "back view" image for the front.
Maybe just my natural contrariness.

Mike

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Hawaiian77 on Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:06 am

Howzit Todd,

IMHO, I think this pine would do very well in a crescent pot. ThumbsUp With some moss and some accent plants like how you have in the cascading pot you have it in now. It would look very cool. Very Happy

A Hui Hou,
-Tim Cool

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Victrinia Ridgeway on Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:12 am

Beautiful improvement! Love the new positioning... and unlike most, I don't get wierded out by pines in a glazed pot. lol ThumbsUp ThumbsUp ThumbsUp

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:38 pm

mike page wrote:It's difficult to make a sure judgement, but from what I see in the images you've posted, I like your "back view" image for the front.
Maybe just my natural contrariness.

Mike
Hi Mike, I go back and forth with this. From the "back",there is a very straight section of trunk which might change if I added a shari. From the "front", the straight section has more movement and interest, I think. The right pot could present all views. Salut, Todd

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:41 pm

Hawaiian77 wrote:Howzit Todd,

IMHO, I think this pine would do very well in a crescent pot. ThumbsUp With some moss and some accent plants like how you have in the cascading pot you have it in now. It would look very cool. Very Happy

A Hui Hou,
-Tim Cool
Thanks, Tim Very Happy

Todd Ellis
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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:42 pm

Victrinia Ridgeway wrote:Beautiful improvement! Love the new positioning... and unlike most, I don't get wierded out by pines in a glazed pot. lol ThumbsUp ThumbsUp ThumbsUp

Kindest regards,

Victrinia
Thanks, Victrinia Very Happy

Todd Ellis
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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Ian Young on Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:19 pm

This would be my choice of front. Pot virtual is just an idea if you are considering shells.


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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:00 pm

Ian Young wrote:This would be my choice of front. Pot virtual is just an idea if you are considering shells.


Thanks Ian. It looks great in the shell! Very Happy
I'm really looking at your preference for front and have to agree that it is a bedtter choice; more character of the twists and curved branches.

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Ian Young on Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:33 pm

It's alway hard to see the full picture in a photo, so to speak, but the movement in the trunk from this angle looks better. You should be able to place the foliage anywhere you want to fit that front. Lovely bark.

I wouldn't be in a rush to repot again any time soon. You have plenty of years of fun ahead of you to get it refined. That gives you plenty of time to find the right pot Very Happy

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:40 pm

I don't care which side you use for the front, that's one INCREDIBLE piece of material! Where did you find it? JRP's are my personal favorite, and this one is stunning. DON"T SCREW IT UP. You have a potential masterpiece on your hands there Todd, I'm envious.

Russell

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:01 am

Russell Coker wrote:I don't care which side you use for the front, that's one INCREDIBLE piece of material! Where did you find it? JRP's are my personal favorite, and this one is stunning. DON"T SCREW IT UP. You have a potential masterpiece on your hands there Todd, I'm envious.

Russell

Thanks, Russell. I found this tree in a landscape nursery in Stafford, VA. I hope to take it to another workshop in the next few years. I haven't found much info on styling weeping pines as bonsai. I have consistently pinched candles and am trying to equalize the vigor. I try to be careful with the bark. Aside from treating for pine tip moth and feeding it, I'm not sure where to go with it. I did learn that NOT getting the needles wet will keep the needle blight to a minimum; only a few needles this year compared to 10% of the needles two years ago. I don't water the foliage on any of my 2 needle pines anymore. It was a hard habit to break, but the needles are much healthier looking. This tree does bud back some. I lean towards the Penjing styles and am thinking of letting it grow longer, to accentuate the "weeping" nature.

Do you have any weeping JRP?

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Chris Cochrane on Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Hi Todd... Live & learn. I've a Red Pine (Umbricata, but trained as windswept) which was attacked by Pine Tip Moth larvae this year. What do you do to control the moths/larvae?

I also have occasional needle-tip browning, and much less often, the browning begins at the needle base. Is this needle blight? A nearby Scots pine which was plucked from the ground this year suffers the same conditions but seems less susceptible. The Red & Scots pines have also seen needle scale this year. I've used dormant summer oil (scale) & Malathion (misreading the Pine Tip Moth as adelgids at needle bases).

I've always watered pine foliage in the heat of summer & was encouraged to water pine foliage in Japan. Why do you think needle blight (?) is encouraged by watering. I thought the needles were cleaned & perhaps refreshed by the spray though I doubt claims of foliar feeding & only feed through the soil.

Thanks for sharing!

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:22 pm

Chris Cochrane wrote:Hi Todd... Live & learn. I've a Red Pine (Umbricata, but trained as windswept) which was attacked by Pine Tip Moth larvae this year. What do you do to control the moths/larvae?

I also have occasional needle-tip browning, and much less often, the browning begins at the needle base. Is this needle blight? A nearby Scots pine which was plucked from the ground this year suffers the same conditions but seems less susceptible. The Red & Scots pines have also seen needle scale this year. I've used dormant summer oil (scale) & Malathion (misreading the Pine Tip Moth as adelgids at needle bases).

I've always watered pine foliage in the heat of summer & was encouraged to water pine foliage in Japan. Why do you think needle blight (?) is encouraged by watering. I thought the needles were cleaned & perhaps refreshed by the spray though I doubt claims of foliar feeding & only feed through the soil.

Thanks for sharing!

Hi Chris, I learned from Julian Adams, last year, not to water the foliage on two and three needle pines. If I remember correctly, he indicated that the blight was caused by a fungus which loves moisture. The symptoms I had were lighter colored "blotches" (or banding) on the needles. I think there was some browning at the base too. Julian's trees are lush and healthy.
I am now using neem oil for treating scale and fungus ( a tip from IBC). So far, the only thing I know to do for preventing Pine Tip moth is preventative spraying. When they are present, I manually pinch them out. I have noticed that pinching the new needle tips enhances more bud formation. I learned this year that ants in the needle casings are a good indication that moth larvae are present (Thank you Ants! ThumbsUp ) I originally thought the ants were eating the pine candles; live and learn Suspect .
Despite the larvae attack, and after pinching out the damaged candle parts, the tips still look pretty healthy. Better than last year's results. I really think keeping the foliage dry makes a difference. Salut, Todd

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:54 pm

Todd,

If that were my tree I'd be downplaying the weeping aspect and going for classical bunjin, this could be done easily with routine pine bonsai pruning techniques. That's not to say that classical bunjin can't be weeping too. It will always have that weeping tendency which just adds to the red pine mystique in my book. (I think red pines are in a class of their own.)

Honestly, I do like the virt of the Kurama stone as a pot. I also think the shot of the "back" is more interesting, but that's a hard call to make from pictures. My first thought for a pot was to find a crude round pot because, if you play your cards right, you could end up with a tree that's equally beautiful and displayable from either side.

"I lean towards the Penjing styles and am thinking of letting it grow longer, to accentuate the "weeping" nature." would never had occurred to me, I guess because of my training. While I enjoy seeing the pictures of Penjing from China, I don't know if I'd want to try that on my own - especially this a piece of material with this much potential. Your statement is sort of a red flag for me, like when I hear someone say "I prefer the clip and grow method" which to me translates to "I'm not serious enough to really be bothered with learning how to properly wire a bonsai."

I don't have any pines, but wish I did. Good material is really hard to come by, I obviously need to go shopping with you!

Russell

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Re: Changed pot and placement for Weeping Red Pine

Post  Chris Cochrane on Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:37 pm

Thanks, Todd... That is a lot of good information on pine care. I've already called Julian twice about the newly lifted Scots Pine and consider his practice & knowledge unbeatable. At a Richmond Bonsai Club presentation, he noted treating Scots pine candles with much less aggression that JBP pruning. I'm taking his advice on the new tree, though Steve Pilacek's advice on JBP pruning (and further consideration from articles such as on ABBA's website) have served me well in the past in diminishing needle length & spreading energy. Julian uses water restriction as part of his regimen for controlling growth. He gets much less growth in Lynchburg than I see in Richmond but is also working with more established material.

An extension agent recommended neem oil for scale to me, too. I already had SunSpray UltraFine Pesticidal oil, and it seems to be working.

Russell's thought of a pot allowing the tree to be seen from two sides (with opposite directional flow) sounds ideal to me. The option of flowing left or right can double opportunities for placement in exhibits & displays as well as offering appreciation of two views.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

Chris Cochrane
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