I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

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I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:08 am

I thought i would start a new thread with this Acer. Has any one got any tips on where to go with this acer. I think it would greatly be enhanced with a naturalistic look.

Do i direct the first branches up like all the big trees around here. They mostly seem to have a main trunk and a few more trunks which could also be called branches. They then seem to have the branches coming off them which are more horizontal.

The bottom branches on this one at the moment are already wanting to go horizontal ,so do i go with it.

Any suggestions?


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I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Guest on Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:37 am

Hello Smithy. As I suggested in your last post, give it a leaf prune and take some photos from all around. Very difficult to give an idea without knowing where the branches are. Very Happy

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  EdMerc on Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:46 pm

Smithy, at the risk of sounding cliché, look to Walter Pall for direction. There are a number of videos of his demo's on YouTube. He has many of his trees up on his gallery free for viewing.

Be mindful of what it is you want and take your time. It's all you can do anyway. Smile

Nice tree. Lot's of potential.

Good luck,
Ed

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Dustin Mann on Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:19 pm

I agree with Ed about checking out Walter Pall(video). Also J.Luis Riveria also branch ramification wire techniques(pretty complicated) At the expense of being very general, the easiest way to go with a naturalistic look for decid. tree is to treat each of those huge branches as a tree itself and have subranch whips wired up then go lateral. As these whips begin to thicken, treat each of them as well as being an individual tree and go up then lateral. Now in doing this you are not picking left-right-back, single apex(conifer) branch pads in the beginning. You still eliminate small branches crossing, going down,etc. In ealy development the tree will have less flat appearance. Hope my wording makes sense. Nice base on tree. Dustin Mann

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:54 pm

iI did some leaf removal and i just took off a few unwanted shoots.




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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:03 pm

EdMerc wrote:Smithy, at the risk of sounding cliché, look to Walter Pall for direction. There are a number of videos of his demo's on YouTube. He has many of his trees up on his gallery free for viewing.

Be mindful of what it is you want and take your time. It's all you can do anyway. Smile

Nice tree. Lot's of potential.

Good luck,
Ed

Hi Ed.
I have been looking through his gallery but i will also check out some demos. It is mostly going to be time now. Now i can see in a bit a lot of the structure seems there on its own. A lot of growing and cutting back to get some thickness on the branches.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:07 pm

Dustin Mann wrote:I agree with Ed about checking out Walter Pall(video). Also J.Luis Riveria also branch ramification wire techniques(pretty complicated) At the expense of being very general, the easiest way to go with a naturalistic look for decid. tree is to treat each of those huge branches as a tree itself and have subranch whips wired up then go lateral. As these whips begin to thicken, treat each of them as well as being an individual tree and go up then lateral. Now in doing this you are not picking left-right-back, single apex(conifer) branch pads in the beginning. You still eliminate small branches crossing, going down,etc. In ealy development the tree will have less flat appearance. Hope my wording makes sense. Nice base on tree. Dustin Mann

That made loads of sense Dustin. These are always the type of tree i am attracted to but have not attempted to grow yet.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Seth Ellwood on Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:38 pm

The last pic looks to me like the front of the tree unless you plan to carve a uro out of the large wound area I would wire some branches in place now but let them grow freely to thicken up as well at the leader you choose .And mabye re pot in a large shallow wooden box next year to let the roots have space to run wich will also help with branch thickening .And of course fertilize heavily. It is a nice start though.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:31 am

Seth Ellwood wrote:The last pic looks to me like the front of the tree unless you plan to carve a uro out of the large wound area I would wire some branches in place now but let them grow freely to thicken up as well at the leader you choose .And mabye re pot in a large shallow wooden box next year to let the roots have space to run wich will also help with branch thickening .And of course fertilize heavily. It is a nice start though.

The last one was always my front . I still plan to carve a uro in the big cuts. So it seems wire them in place but let them carry on growing this season.

Looking at Walters pics ,a his deciduous trees seem to have that basic branch structure of lower ones being horizontal and then reaching up as you go further up the tree.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  JimLewis on Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:45 am

Seth Ellwood wrote:The last pic looks to me like the front of the tree unless you plan to carve a uro out of the large wound area I would wire some branches in place now but let them grow freely to thicken up as well at the leader you choose .And mabye re pot in a large shallow wooden box next year to let the roots have space to run wich will also help with branch thickening .And of course fertilize heavily. It is a nice start though.

Oh, I dunno. There's a lot of potential there, but those to stubs (arm) and that long, and large, root pointing right at us seem a tad poronographic to me.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:11 pm

JimLewis wrote:
Seth Ellwood wrote:The last pic looks to me like the front of the tree unless you plan to carve a uro out of the large wound area I would wire some branches in place now but let them grow freely to thicken up as well at the leader you choose .And mabye re pot in a large shallow wooden box next year to let the roots have space to run wich will also help with branch thickening .And of course fertilize heavily. It is a nice start though.

Oh, I dunno. There's a lot of potential there, but those to stubs (arm) and that long, and large, root pointing right at us seem a tad poronographic to me.

Like the monster carving we saw before , maybe i should enhance with a bit of carving. elephant affraid

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Todd Ellis on Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:28 pm

Smithy, how large is this tree? Very nice nebari and trunk. Is it regular nursery stock or was it grown specifically for bonsai? Thanks, Todd

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:24 am

Hi Todd,
This was grown as a garden plant and the owner was moving so i was able to dig it up . The buyer fell through so she is still in the house minus three acers. It is 33cms high .

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:25 am

I had a little play with this one this morning. I'm sure they will get moved around more. I'm trying to get these to first branches to travel upwards and then take the laterals off these. I guess i will let grow and then cut back . I want it too be a fairly big tree.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Dustin Mann on Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:49 am

There you go very nice. Your plans right on. Let those subranches grow out at least 12-16 inches then chase them back to 5-6 inches. I would keep that front root;gives more round appearance to nebari plus will fuse with other roots anyway. Dustin

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  mr treevolution on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:17 am

I like what you have done there Smithy, now get it in the sun!
Regards Nick

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:26 pm

I just took the wire off this today as they were starting to bite in .I want to cut these branches back now as they are getting long and one has been knocked off either by cat or wind, is this good timing or should i let grow all season. The bits i want to keep are set in place.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Guest on Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:52 pm

I'm at work and cannot see pics. If the branches have gained the kind of thickness you want, then cut back. If not then let them carry on. You can prune this time of year because the new growth has enough time to harden off before Winter.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

Post  Smithy on Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:02 pm

Thanks Will. I think i'm going to chop them back as they are so long that they are moving aroung so much in the wind that two have peeled awy from the trunk.

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Re: I would like a naturalistic look for this Acer.

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