W+W+ Juniper

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W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Sat May 22, 2010 8:19 pm

Sorry I haven't a better pic but I can't find one anywhere. I've spent the last three years, nursing this tree back to health. It came to me in a very shallow pot and had very poor drainage. It was also plastered in Scale insects. On inspection of the roots, or lack of them, I put the tree in a deeper pot. The only before photo is this one. The Juniper is on the far left.sorry again.

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W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Sat May 22, 2010 8:30 pm

Took my time, during last weekend's Wierd and wonderful. Picked out all the weak stuff and wired it up. Took the pic today.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  peter keane on Sat May 22, 2010 11:52 pm

from what I can see, your juniper has a nice vein and deadwood. hope you can show a more clear pic

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Rob Kempinski on Sun May 23, 2010 1:00 pm

Interesting backdrop. You are going to have to explain "Weird and Wonderful"?

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W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Sun May 23, 2010 5:34 pm

Hello Paul. Hope this is a bit clearer? Rob. Wierd and Wonderful is a thread in general disscusion and off topic banter

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  AlainK on Mon May 24, 2010 12:04 am

will baddeley wrote:The only before photo is this one. The Juniper is on the far left.sorry again.

Is that you on the photo?

If so, you look much healthier than on your avatar.

And yes, the tree looks much healthier too.

I would probably wrap it up in several soaked raffia put a week in advance, wire it with a high gauge wire and twist it so the trunk would look more "accidented". But as everyone knows, it's so easy to "virtualize" a tree that you've never ever seen and touched in real life Smile

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  peter keane on Mon May 24, 2010 4:24 pm

I like the use of peeling the live part of the trunk to get the dead layers. that's going to look nice when it whitens up.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Pavel Slovák on Mon May 24, 2010 9:53 pm

Hi Will.
Very nice tree. Very Happy ThumbsUp Will probably need to keep a light tree. Wink

Pavel

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Tue May 25, 2010 2:40 pm

Hello Peter. I worked some of the deadwood before it came back to me. This Juniper had a live vein on either side of some deadwood and the shari was very straight and uninteresting. I removed one of the live veins completely and jinned the overly heavy branches.
Hello Pavel. My idea was to keep this tree quite light (foliage wise). Because the tree was sick and lost a lot of foliage, the new growth is strong and leggy. I'm waiting for it to settle down before it gets a proper thinning and fine wiring.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  boon on Tue May 25, 2010 4:00 pm

have you thought about shortened the left branch. and let the right side grow longer. the flow will go to the right. the lean of the trunk is dominant on the right side. that is the reason i think key branch (iong branch on this tree) should be on the same side of the lean of the trunk.


Last edited by boon on Tue May 25, 2010 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Tue May 25, 2010 4:33 pm

Helo Boon. Thanks for your input but I don't agree. It's also about the picture your painting. Both trees(your Cali as well) both move up from the pot to the left. They have both put up a struggle with the forces of nature and nature has won. The forces have come from right to left and left their scars on the left hand side, with your dramatic deadwood and my jinned branches and live vein turning to the inside. For the foliage to then grow stronger on the left side would in my opinion, give the wrong impression.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  boon on Tue May 25, 2010 5:11 pm

will baddeley wrote:Helo Boon. Thanks for your input but I don't agree. It's also about the picture your painting. Both trees(your Cali as well) both move up from the pot to the left. They have both put up a struggle with the forces of nature and nature has won. The forces have come from right to left and left their scars on the left hand side, with your dramatic deadwood and my jinned branches and live vein turning to the inside. For the foliage to then grow stronger on the left side would in my opinion, give the wrong impression.

i do not think the pic i posted earlier give the correct impression. i will find another one later.
it is the force that has push the trunk and cause the curve and twist. i feel that it lean more to the right.
flow can be either on the left or on the right. i have seen similar tree styled both way. as long as it is well balanced either way is correct.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Tue May 25, 2010 5:33 pm

Should have left that photo on Boon. It's good to get a debate going with tree references and apart from anything else, it's a very good tree.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  boon on Tue May 25, 2010 11:32 pm

i feel these 2 trees are much better for discussion. the trunk is smaller. one is informal and one is slant. both are some what a bunjin-fu(bunjin feeling)
I took these pictures a few years ago when i visit different nurseries.




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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Wed May 26, 2010 12:04 am

Hello Boon.Don't these 2 pics emphasize my point. The first,rises from.the pot to the right, turns left and then sweeps to the right. The majority of the deadwood is on the left, giving the feeling that this is the direction of the weather. The foliage is therefore close in on the left and abundant on the right. The seconds deadwood being on the right and the greater foliage on the left.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  AlainK on Wed May 26, 2010 12:45 am

I apologise in advance for being so straightforward, but anyway, my reputation is made, so :

Boon, I think it is not relevant to post trees that have naturally such a movement right from the start of the trunk to argue about the "canopy" of the tree. It's just as if you focused on the shoe size of a marathon runner to try and explain why this one runs faster than that one : it is simply irrelevant.

Will's tree and the trees you're showing have such different movements that any comment upon the foliage is totally vain. One must consider a tree as a whole, not try to "patch" different parts from different designs/styles/trees that impressed you on what a poor Will Baddedley is trying to achieve.

Don't you think he hasn't enough miseries in seeing his avatar, this ridiculous rendition of his self each time he connects to a thread he took part in?...

(What?... He's British and he has a mean sense of humour?.. Oh, he has -Has he not?... Very Happy )

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Wed May 26, 2010 1:02 am

Hello Alain. Less of the "poor Will Baddedley", if you don't mind. Are you originally from the Wirral, as they seem to have this problem with my surname.
I have no problem with critisism, just as long as it's me doing it. No seriously, I think Boon has a valid point as do I. Whether working on less expensive nursery stock or yamadori, the goals are the same. The tree should tell a story.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  boon on Wed May 26, 2010 1:47 am

will baddeley wrote:Hello Boon.Don't these 2 pics emphasize my point. The first,rises from.the pot to the right, turns left and then sweeps to the right. The majority of the deadwood is on the left, giving the feeling that this is the direction of the weather. The foliage is therefore close in on the left and abundant on the right. The seconds deadwood being on the right and the greater foliage on the left.

on the first tree, the key branch is on the same side of the slant.
your tree is on the opposite side of the slant.

on your tree, your key branch is opposit side of the first lean (inside the curve)
on the second tree that i posted, the key branch is on the same side of the first lean on the trunk. (outside of the curve).

i am not here to compete or to win, just express my vision.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  boon on Wed May 26, 2010 1:57 am

AlainK wrote:I apologise in advance for being so straightforward, but anyway, my reputation is made, so :

Boon, I think it is not relevant to post trees that have naturally such a movement right from the start of the trunk to argue about the "canopy" of the tree. It's just as if you focused on the shoe size of a marathon runner to try and explain why this one runs faster than that one : it is simply irrelevant.

[color=blue]it is about the relationship of the trunk and the flow of the tree. Naturally the flow of the curve of the trunk, location of key branch and location of the apex, play the key role on how the tree is styled.
i am not here for the contest. i posted those picture to show the curve and flow of the tree. if you see the different or not, it is fine either way.
shoe size is not relevant in this case. i just do not understand the relationship between the shoe size and how fast the runner can run.



Will's tree and the trees you're showing have such different movements that any comment upon the foliage is totally vain. One must consider a tree as a whole, not try to "patch" different parts from different designs/styles/trees that impressed you on what a poor Will Baddedley is trying to achieve.

i am just express an option here. It is a different way to paint(if i may compare it to painting)

Don't you think he hasn't enough miseries in seeing his avatar, this ridiculous rendition of his self each time he connects to a thread he took part in?...

(What?... He's British and he has a mean sense of humour?.. Oh, he has -Has he not?... Very Happy )

LOL


Last edited by boon on Wed May 26, 2010 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  boon on Wed May 26, 2010 1:59 am

will baddeley wrote:Hello Alain. Less of the "poor Will Baddedley", if you don't mind. Are you originally from the Wirral, as they seem to have this problem with my surname.
I have no problem with critisism, just as long as it's me doing it. No seriously, I think Boon has a valid point as do I. Whether working on less expensive nursery stock or yamadori, the goals are the same. The tree should tell a story.

whatever it is, bonsai should look healthy and beautiful.
have fun,

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Wed May 26, 2010 3:48 pm

Tried a slight clockwise rotation. The majority of the tree leans to the left, even in the old position. The canopy hides a lot of it at present. A more gentle curve from this angle? I never had this discussion down as a contest either Boon.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed May 26, 2010 4:37 pm

I like the design as it nicely frames the negative space.

Don't like the weeds in the pot though cherry

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Guest on Wed May 26, 2010 4:53 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote:I like the design as it nicely frames the negative space.

Don't like the weeds in the pot though cherry

I've actually started cultivating weeds because I know how much it gets to you. Thanks Rob.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  boon on Thu May 27, 2010 4:49 am

[quote="will baddeley"]Tried a slight clockwise rotation. The majority of the tree leans to the left, even in the old position. The canopy hides a lot of it at present. A more gentle curve from this angle? I never had this discussion down as a contest either Boon.

Will,
thank you,
have fun
Very Happy

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu May 27, 2010 1:11 pm

will baddeley wrote:
Rob Kempinski wrote:I like the design as it nicely frames the negative space.

Don't like the weeds in the pot though cherry

I've actually started cultivating weeds because I know how much it gets to you. Thanks Rob.

They don't really "get to me" but they are kinda like a mustache on a beautiful woman. Easy to remove but tough to look at.

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Re: W+W+ Juniper

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