Mugo Pine research

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Mugo Pine research

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Fri May 21, 2010 2:47 pm

In reviewing several of the Mugo Pine threads, and attempting a few of my own over the years, I finally reached an epiphany... "I'm really great at killing Mugo Pines"!

What book would youse Mugo Pine pros recommend for those of us Mugo-ically challenged enthusiasts?

I currently have two Mugos. One is doing OK, one I'm about to transform into a "burning bush"! I look for suitable material, mostly from larger nursery stock, primarily due to a lack of collectible material.

Last year, I found two. Both had decent primary trunks and a few decent branches to concentrate on. I took them and cleaned out all the dead, removed 60 to 80 % of the smaller branches fertilized them with a standard evergreen fertilizer and put them up for the winter. Both came out of winter storage fine.

I decided to begin working on both of them a tad differently, to compare my results. I pinched back the candles on both and allowed the remaining needles to spread out and grow. On one of them I came back and trimmed the old needles back, allowing the newer, smaller needles to "take center stage". The other I just cleaned off the dead and dying needless and left last year's needles alone.

The one that I trimmed the old needles on is almost totally dead (new needles are brown and falling off except on one branch.) The other appears fine, but I'm scared to try anything new with it for fear of adding it to the burn pile.

I also need to put it in a larger grow pot, or box, and I'm not sure if I should do it or wait until next year.

Don't get me wrong, I think I have $6 invested in both, and killing trees has never been something that I have lost sleep over, but I am trying to learn more about the trees by trying to get them to thrive than by creating the world's largest publication called "The Assassin's Guide to Mugo Pines!"

Again, I have never had good luck with Mugos, so I think I need to go back to the basics and could use a good Mugo primer to get me started.

Thanks,

Jay

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Mugo Pine Research

Post  bonsaisr on Fri May 21, 2010 3:22 pm

Go here: http://mababonsai.org/pages/wood_mugho1.html
Vance Wood is the top expert on mugo pines (mugho is the old obsolete spelling).
I can add to your list of how to kill them:
Repot in the spring. I have found in the literature & from experience that in our climate, you are better off to repot mugos in July.
Keep trying to grow the Iseli miniatures. I don't know how many I've killed, but I keep trying.
Prune extensively on a small shohin.
Listen to all the big experts.
Root prune or otherwise stress the roots when repotting. Don't leave old soil on the roots.
Keep it too wet, too dry, or too cold over the winter.
Iris

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Fri May 21, 2010 3:38 pm

Thanks, Iris!

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Fri May 21, 2010 4:52 pm

After reading Woods article on Mugos, my exhuberance in getting started might have been by downfall.
I should have reduced the amount of pruming at one time and placed a greater amount of time between activities. The surviving pine will be repotted in July or August and I will see if anything comes of the other before I recycle it.

Jay

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Victrinia Ridgeway on Fri May 21, 2010 5:02 pm

It will be interesting to see how that plays out on older mature trees with an ideal colonization of mycorrhziea. I got after mine pretty hard... I'll keep you posted. What a Face

Good luck with yours.... Victrinia

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Hawaiian77 on Fri May 21, 2010 5:25 pm

Howzit Jay,
Same here Cuz. I think I went to hard and to fast on mind and it died too. Sad But my JBP are doing fine. thumbs up

-Tim Cool

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri May 21, 2010 9:36 pm

bonsaisr wrote:Go here: http://mababonsai.org/pages/wood_mugho1.html
Vance Wood is the top expert on mugo pines
Iris


Have you seen the European Mugo pines?

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Fri May 21, 2010 10:09 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote:
bonsaisr wrote:Go here: http://mababonsai.org/pages/wood_mugho1.html
Vance Wood is the top expert on mugo pines
Iris


Have you seen the European Mugo pines?



No, Got a link?

Jay

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Peter E. on Fri May 21, 2010 10:51 pm

Jay, For what it's worth, Take them very SLOWLY.

Mugo's do not react like "Maples ".

They need to be caressed like a woman. Slow and easy does it every time.

Never attempt to do more than ONE action a YEAR.

Try this; http://www.karamotto.org/?page=21

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Mario Stefano on Fri May 21, 2010 11:13 pm

Peter E. wrote:Jay, For what it's worth, Take them very SLOWLY.

Mugo's do not react like "Maples ".

They need to be caressed like a woman. Slow and easy does it every time.

Never attempt to do more than ONE action a YEAR.

Try this; http://www.karamotto.org/?page=21

Everything you write is true and what we are working on mugo, we must be sure that the tree was in great shape. When the tree is strong, we can do only one treatment per season. After collecting, mugo must rest at least 3yrs.

regards
Mario

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  RKatzin on Sat May 22, 2010 1:07 am

Wow! I do agree with the pros on the care needed with the mugo, my own personal experience has been quite different. I've always considered my mugos the one indestructible pine, able to survive my rudest insults and ignorance of proper techniques and care, they remain as some of the few reminders of my first attempts at bonsai. Mind you, to this day they're not pretty trees, but they live still and may yet make a tree worthy of photographing. Newer acquisitions fair much better these days applying amended care and feeding, we're making progress here, pilgrims, thank you, very much!

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Mugo Pine Research

Post  bonsaisr on Sat May 22, 2010 2:14 am

Sometimes it's hard to know how to apply the rules in a particular situation. I recently styled a Mugo pine with Bill Valavanis. It was recently repotted in a nursery pot, and he wired it from top to bottom. He warned me in no uncertain terms not to pot it up until next year. About the same time I bought a 'Mops' in a 4 inch pot to practice on. I pruned it & wired some branches. No telling how long it has been in the nursery pot. Will anyone object if I repot it this July?
I forget where I saw it, but one of the Internet pine articles has the candling sequence backwards. The article says to first cut the strong candles, then two weeks later cut the weaker candles. Actually, if you do it that way, first you cut the weaker candles, then two weeks later cut the strong ones.
Iris

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Walter Pall on Sat May 22, 2010 6:40 am

These are just a few of my mugo pines I have about 100 of these and work with them since thirty years. See my gallery for about 40 specimen mugos.
Some rules for mugo pines:
only one major insult in one vegetation period
Wait until the tree is well established before you do anything
meaning no pinching no cutting until the tree shows clear signs of vigor.
Only break ling new shoots into half soon after they appear on healthy trees. Leave weak shoots as they are.
Try to avoid repotting as long as you can hold it
Repot in late spring when the buds are fat already, never pot too early
If absolutely necessary you can also repot in the beginning of September
NEVER repot or collect outside these times
Plant in very coarse modern substrate
Water aggressively every day
feed aggressively (much more than you think) every ten days with whatever feed is on sale in your garden center
Place in full sun, never in shade








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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Mario Stefano on Sat May 22, 2010 7:49 am

Thanks, Walter !

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  Rob Kempinski on Sat May 22, 2010 12:21 pm

Hawaiian77 wrote:Howzit Jay,
Same here Cuz. I think I went to hard and to fast on mind and it died too. Sad But my JBP are doing fine. thumbs up

-Tim Cool

Wow I am surprised you have them in Hawaii - I guess at the very high elevations maybe. They are a cold weather zone tree.

The collected European trees are very impressive as Walter just posted.

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Mugo Pine Research

Post  bonsaisr on Sat May 22, 2010 2:19 pm

Comparing suggestions from Walter Pall (central Europe), Karamotto, (Netherlands), and Vance Wood (Midwest U S), the watchword is FIND OUT WHAT WORKS IN YOUR CLIMATE. Since Central NY is essentially the same climate as the Midwest, if there is a difference, I will follow Vance Wood. Around here, we tend to avoid fall repotting except in emergencies.
Rob said he is surprised that mugo pines grow in Hawaii. Somebody pointed out that Pinus mugo has an extremely wide natural range, throughout Europe from the Alps to the Mediterranean. Therefore, if you treat it right, it is a very adaptable species.
Iris


Last edited by bonsaisr on Sat May 22, 2010 6:00 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Correction)

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  tim stubbs on Sat May 22, 2010 4:19 pm

i wouldnt worry about climate , we have gone from -5c (at night) to 26c (today) in just over two weeks and they are looking well , that was following Walters advice over the last three years .


Some further reading , from Hans van Meer's pages ,
http://www.karamotto.org/index.php?page=21

tim

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  jordan12 on Sat May 22, 2010 6:04 pm

how do you plant things on rocks? like the one above..

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Mugo Pine Research

Post  bonsaisr on Sat May 22, 2010 6:17 pm

In Syracuse, we can go from 60 F (16 C) to below zero (-18 C) in a day & a half. Mugo pines are used in landscaping here. Bonsai are kept in the garage, cold-frame, etc. My hardy bonsai are in a sunporch (with the blinds drawn & a heater when necessary).
In a climate where it goes below freezing in winter, rock plantings are kept in a sheltered location. If a rock planting uses pines or other hardy trees, it is kept cool enough for the trees to go dormant, but above freezing, say, 33 to 45 F (1 to 7 C). I have a tropical rock planting that I keep under fluorescent lights in the winter.
Iris

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Removing all the old Needles

Post  Toshiro on Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:55 pm

Hello,
I just saw this videowhere Ryan Neil talks about removing all of the old needles. I hope hos explanation helps.

https://youtu.be/Yn1FiRw2JBo?t=35m32s

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Re: Mugo Pine research

Post  john jones on Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:18 am

I have learned one thing about mugo pines: They start dying the day I order one. I have my last mugo pine on my patio now. It looks miserable, and I have done nothing but treat it well. When it goes, I will never have one of these monsters again.



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@ john jones

Post  Toshiro on Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:37 pm

I bought my first one this week. Im going to tell every one not to even look at it funny

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Re: Mugo Pine research

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