Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

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Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Joe Hatfield on Thu May 06, 2010 7:22 pm

I will be styling this Engelmenn Spruce NEXT season if all goes well. I was looking for some suggestions.


The common spraypaint can for size reference.









Last edited by Joe Hatfield on Thu May 06, 2010 7:32 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : The Original pictures i posted didnt work.. first time for that... so i uploaded a different way.)

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Joe Hatfield on Thu May 06, 2010 7:34 pm

Edited.... something went wrong with the photo link uploaded... I don't know what that was all about.


Please forgive the Background.

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  RichLewis on Thu May 06, 2010 10:02 pm

How about this? It's tilted slightly to the right, and the 2 dead branches on the top right hand side have been cut back. The upper one has been removed completely, and the trunk hollowed slightly to remove the inverse taper and add a bit of movement, which is accentuated by the lower one, which has been shortened and jinned. Where the trunk forks, I jinned the left fork and brought the foliege behind it to give a bit of depth. The deadwood cotinues slightly up the right fork (the new apex) to disguise the fork junction.

I know one of the branches crosses the trunk, a bit unconventional but ultimately the styling comes down to your preferences. The apex looks a bit strange, but I was hoping you could cover it with foliege (wanted to show the branch structure in the drawing). Hopefully the tree will backbud more than as shown in the drawing! I think you should continue to feed and pinch for a couple of seasons befire styling, just to be on the safe side.

Cheers

Richard




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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Joe Hatfield on Fri May 07, 2010 2:40 am

Rich, Thank you very much for the time and consideration you put towards this. The sketch is beautiful. If it is ok with you I would like to save the image and refer to it later.

I like the removal of the top right dead wood you have mentioned. I think the area looks very cluttered. I appreciate the carving of the trunk and all the jin work. I can really see what you are suggesting. It could look very powerful.

As I compare images of the different sides. I notice that the last photo I posted has some common features to the sketch you drew up. I wonder if its applicable to this front as well.

If the tree decides to go with the design you suggest, then I will name the tree "King Richard". ....... maybe I should see if King Richard was any good... I wouldn't want to stir any bad thoughts should it be entered in a English Exhibit.
king


Regards,

Joe

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  RichLewis on Fri May 07, 2010 11:26 pm

Please do, I drew it for you!

Funny you mention that, I did consider this front, although I felt the tree somehow looked less rugged from this angle. Perfectly manicured spruce are nothing more than Christmas trees!

The advantages of this front however are many (assuming you will tilt the trunk to the left this time!). The apex (A) wil come towards the viewer, and the crossing branch gives extra depth as it now appears on the back of the trunk. The second trunk (B) can still be jinned as before, and appear behind the apex. You could make an apex from B but I feel you would loose a lot of movement, unless you could jin only the top half and bend it dramatically to the left. It has nice taper anyway. The dead branch (C) can be removed as before to give movement to the trunk.

I feel the area D attracts to much attention however. Branch E can be lowered as before, although you may have to move the foliege mass F down and right ever so slightly to balance the tree and make it so the first foliege mass appears 1/3 of the way up the trunk.



Glad you liked the drawing

Cheersw

Rich


Last edited by RichLewis on Fri May 07, 2010 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : tilted image!)

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Walter Pall on Sat May 08, 2010 5:48 am

Joe,

I saved your images yesterday to do a virtual. Now I see this great drawing. Sorry, I cannot do better than that. Go for this. This keeps the wild nature of the spruce and still tames it a bit. But we don't want to make a house swine of the wild boar. So don't try too much to make a bonsai if this. Try to make a wild tree. This could be placed on a flat stone very well.
And, yes, don't do ANYTHING until next spring.

greetings
WP
http://walter-pall.de


Last edited by Walter Pall on Thu May 13, 2010 5:37 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Joe Hatfield on Mon May 10, 2010 7:38 pm

Another fantastic replay.The more I look at the last pic the more I like the first one.


Walter, I acquired this from Natures Way a few weeks ago. It was in the WP area Smile Thanks for your advice.

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  coh on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Joe,

Came across this old thread while searching for info on spruce's...was wondering how the tree is doing and if you've done any styling work on it? I picked up one of these (smaller, though) from Nature's Way earlier this year and won't be doing anything to it until at least next spring (other than learning how to grow it!).

Chris

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  RichLewis on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:34 pm

This site is full of lots of useful info for spruce and their cousins, firs:

http://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Picea.html

Check out Harry's article on spruce styling,pruning and wiring

cheers

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Harleyrider on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:45 pm

Hmmm, I wonder what the most unusual 'size reference' object has been so far? We've all seen the cigarette packets, beer cans, mobile phones etc, and Fiona's Ardbeg bottle is positively legendary by now.

Joe's clever usage of a spray can is an obvious statement on the decline of modern industry, coupled with a searing indictment on the hopelessness of todays' youth.

Or something.

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It's been way too long

Post  Joe Hatfield on Sat May 05, 2012 6:06 am

Hello,

It has been some time since we last talked about this tree. The last 2 years have been pretty hectic and at times very stressful, thus preventing me from enjoying the finer things in life.

Like the seasons, that time has passed. My family and I are well and happy. For the first time in 2 years, I have been able to work on my trees other then general up keep.

I decided not to re-pot the tree this year. The pot I wanted to use was stolen and haven't selected a new one. I allowed the tree to grow in a mix of Turface and organics. I have fertilized using Colin Lewis' bagged pellets that smell of fish food. Thus making it irresistible to squirrels and other assorted critters so, I am really unsure as to how much was actually absorbed. I had a good amount of healthy buds and shoots so, it must have been agreeable to the tree. The tree was kept in full sun or partial shade depending on the weather and was watered mostly with Philadelphia's finest city supplied water.

I have followed the sketch for the most part. I have yet to do any carving and have left some of the top foliage to help cover some of the tree. I am still pondering the next move for the top jin.

Here are updated, poorly lit pictures of "King Richard" that also showcases shotty wiring techniques. Smile These are the 2 possible sides. Both are deceiving in the photos but, each have their advantages.








I have followed the sketch for the most part. I have yet to do any carving and have left some of the top foliage to help cover some of the tree. I am still pondering the next move for the top jin.

Thank you and please voice your thoughts.


Kind Regards,

Joe

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  DaveKirkland on Sat May 05, 2012 9:49 am

Hi Joe,
Looking at the sketch again, it looks like a full size old mountain tree - largely because its top is bare and there are just a few foliage 'pads'. You can jin the top of your tree and remove some of the top branches now. The foliage pads - you need to wait until this years new buds have extended, then carefully cut them all off by half - this will cause new buds for next year back up the branches. Do this same clipping of new growth for the next two or three years and you will have a great tree, in really a very short time.

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Joe Hatfield on Sun May 06, 2012 12:51 am

DaveKirkland wrote:Hi Joe,
Looking at the sketch again, it looks like a full size old mountain tree - largely because its top is bare and there are just a few foliage 'pads'. You can jin the top of your tree and remove some of the top branches now. The foliage pads - you need to wait until this years new buds have extended, then carefully cut them all off by half - this will cause new buds for next year back up the branches. Do this same clipping of new growth for the next two or three years and you will have a great tree, in really a very short time.

Yes, I will have to work on the top portion next along with the carving. Thanks for the tips I will keep the thread updated.

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Fore on Sun May 06, 2012 4:21 pm

I had no idea which way to style this tree on my first look today at this thread. Richard came up with a fantastic design, a great sketch of the design, and Joe, the tree has grown well and looks much healthier!
(I'm still obv. working on developing my artistic eye and seeing challenging material like this, along with a solution helps a lot!)

Good work so far Joe, please do keep this updated as I'd love to see it's progression.

Fore
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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

Post  Joe Hatfield on Sun May 06, 2012 5:46 pm

Fore, I also was very perplexed with the design when I first acquired this collected tree.
As mentioned, I purchased this tree from Natures way bonsai 2 years ago. I believe it came from the Rocky Mountains and had been in a nursery pot recovering for one season prior to my purchase. That would mean that the tree was in a nursery pot for one season and then transplanted into this pot which it still remains (2 years).

I focused on growing it out as per Richard and Walters suggestions. I will wait another season to do the carving and top Jin in order to allow for some more reflection and study the growth habit some more. (I've never owned a spruce prior to this.) I also want to watch some vids and practice my carving before butchering this project. affraid

Thank you for the kind words and Ill keep the thread alive as it progresses.

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Re: Engelmann spruce style suggestions?

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