only the tree matters...

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  ogie on Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:01 pm

Hi thanks for sharing and we will wait for its progression in the future,patience is a virtue which you have,enjoy what your doing & i agree with you,i believe too that the overall composition of the tree is the expression of ones art Smile

Alex

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  EdMerc on Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:44 pm

will baddeley wrote:Not sure I understand this approach. We all have trees with interesting features, but if we only posted bits of trees there wouldn't be many users on this forum. The whole ethos of the IBC is to discuss, constructively critisize, possibly make virtuals and generally bounce ideas around. Can't do that with bits of tree, foliage or not.

Will, I can see your point. And I agree that getting feedback is what IBC is about, but I also think that inspiration is an even bigger part of what IBC provides the bonsai community.

I would love to see the tree in it's entirety, but it's been stated that it's not ready. I'll likely not be impressed. I was, however, impressed with the dead wood and movement. I know they are only elements of a larger picture, but what a great opportunity to study those elements without the distraction of an unbalanced picture.

Maybe the tree will never make a great bonsai. I don't know. But it has given me food for thought. And that's all I come here for. Wink

Thanks again,
Ed

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:50 pm

......this is my bonsai



this (thought of mine )is for all the trees and not just the tree being discussed above, so no offense meant for the owner of the tree...

IMHO-the deadwood of a tree should not be the main feature of a tree and the same thing applied with the foliage or the pot or the branches.

It should be a complete package. like we always say here...this is an art. like an art being presented, having only one of the good feature like the right color, texture, or balance, or frame is not enough. every thing should be presented nicely as one.

...in architecture we call this spot details. and having one or several good spot details does not mean that the whole structure will come up nice.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Joao Santos on Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:02 pm

EdMerc wrote:
will baddeley wrote:Not sure I understand this approach. We all have trees with interesting features, but if we only posted bits of trees there wouldn't be many users on this forum. The whole ethos of the IBC is to discuss, constructively critisize, possibly make virtuals and generally bounce ideas around. Can't do that with bits of tree, foliage or not.

Will, I can see your point. And I agree that getting feedback is what IBC is about, but I also think that inspiration is an even bigger part of what IBC provides the bonsai community.

I would love to see the tree in it's entirety, but it's been stated that it's not ready. I'll likely not be impressed. I was, however, impressed with the dead wood and movement. I know they are only elements of a larger picture, but what a great opportunity to study those elements without the distraction of an unbalanced picture.

Maybe the tree will never make a great bonsai. I don't know. But it has given me food for thought. And that's all I come here for. Wink

Thanks again,
Ed

Will is entirely right. How many times we see very young trees of beginners without any caracter? And even this is no reason no to show, share, and get advices!
Dispite the potencial of any tree, I think the main goal is to evolve and practise, if not IBC would have no reason to exist.

Practise and gain knowledge leads to better quality.

Regars
João Santos

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  ogie on Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:09 pm

Will, I can see your point. And I agree that getting feedback is what IBC is about, but I also think that inspiration is an even bigger part of what IBC provides the bonsai community.

I would love to see the tree in it's entirety, but it's been stated that it's not ready. I'll likely not be impressed. I was, however, impressed with the dead wood and movement. I know they are only elements of a larger picture, but what a great opportunity to study those elements without the distraction of an unbalanced picture.

Maybe the tree will never make a great bonsai. I don't know. But it has given me food for thought. And that's all I come here for. Wink

Thanks again,
Ed[/quote]

Everybody gets ideas & inspiration from IBC,with that being in mind,Ed Is right,irregardless of its posted but as long as its related to the OWNERS TREE,we should give our appreciation for their contribution.Is it much more important to give our insight,design,critic & opinion ALWAYS? Than to engourage new hobbist? If we push hard,then IBC members will also push people away to participate,it will let new ONES feel they are not at par,we all came from humble begining in this ART,if we see a portion of nature do we not get inspiration?I admire people who are talented,but the likes of me who is constantly learning,we humbly wait & watch to gain from IBC coz ot's a nice forum.people who are long in this may not be as good as NEW COMER or vise versa.Person who has build a name & are pillars of this form of ART are undoubtly has my highest RESPECT,but we are all artist in our own rights.FINISH or UNFINISH
Respect is GIVEN not EARN...
Thank you all
Alex

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Guest on Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:44 pm

...what harm will it do if the whole tree will be shown? I can't see the logic in that.

this is not about which tree is better than others or other people are being more expert than others. and "what" does it mean that the tree is not yet ready? this is a forum and not a bonsai show.
if only "ready" trees will be shown here...then post in the forum will be reduced by more than 99%, we'll be lucky to see tree posted here once in a month, and that won't be healthy for a forum.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  JimLewis on Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:59 pm

it's been stated that it's not ready.

That's silly. Most of us post pictures of trees in progress at one time o another. When we do, we post the whole damned thing, warts and all.

Someone's being coy.

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:20 am

JimLewis wrote:
it's been stated that it's not ready.

That's silly. Most of us post pictures of trees in progress at one time o another. When we do, we post the whole damned thing, warts and all.

Someone's being coy.

more than silly Jim.

this is my another tree on a rock...I'l post it when its ready.



another phempis...lovely isn't it not? hope you can appreciate my tree..




regards,
jun

Smile

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  helmut_nittel on Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:10 am

jun wrote:
JimLewis wrote:
it's been stated that it's not ready.

That's silly. Most of us post pictures of trees in progress at one time o another. When we do, we post the whole damned thing, warts and all.

Someone's being coy.

more than silly Jim.

this is my another tree on a rock...I'l post it when its ready.



another phempis...lovely isn't it not? hope you can appreciate my tree..




regards,
jun

Smile

AAAhhh! you have the same morbid kinda humor like I have Laughing ... .... did anybody really read the reason that i wrote? thanks to ogie and EdMerc I`m sure they did ThumbsUp

If somebody really wants to see it, you are all really welcome to see it in 3D

I am the worker of Pius Notter since a few years and I live nearly in that company....

if you catch me in the right time, we could even enjoy a glass of Amarone or a nice single malt while talking about bonsai.... Wink


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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:16 am

yes... being happy is what we all need. some humor here and there... Very Happy

like to have some beer with you too.

our local beers are good.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  hirow08 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:47 am

Again... What's wrong with showing the entire tree anyway?? People here are all crazy about bonsai's, what do you expect?! we look at the pictures and just say oooh nice deadwood. That's it?? what about the whole tree?

Lets put up a new thread " show us parts of your tree" lol!



I really like your tree helmut and.... the way you think? lol!

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:51 am

Morbid sense of humour...Yes, Im #####n dying here........

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  hirow08 on Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:13 am

We just want to see the whole unfinished tree as we always do! cheers cheers cheers

(I'm really holding back to post pictures of my learning tree's not until it's ready to be wired and all. But because of your thread i was forced to do so Razz )

We like your tree!!!!

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Ravi Kiran on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:34 am

Hi All,

Laughed my way as I read through the comments on this thread. lol!

Yes without a doubt it is perfectly fine to post images of trees that are still in training.

I am surprised that no one has said it so far in this thread so here goes. What is happening here is TREE STRIP TEASE bounce I guess strip tease is fine if it progresses but if stuck at one level with the promise of the next one a few months down the line, then one loses interest.

IBC members has always been supportive of all posts. They have offered good advice and encouragement. I haven't hesitated to post images of my trees in training and would continue to do so.

There is also a saying in management circles that "HALF INFORMATION IS OFTEN USELESS INFORMATION"

Regards
Ravi

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  my nellie on Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:51 am

Good post, Ravi!
Now I wonder...., should I not post pictures of my little English Beech after pruning and ask advice about proceeding to next steps, since I am a beginner?
Noooo, Sir! I will do so!

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  helmut_nittel on Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:33 pm

two and a half years ago




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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  fiona on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:45 pm

You are a very lucky guy to have such a splendid piece of material to work with.

I am glad you decided to show us this "big picture" as now we will all be waiting eagerly for your ongoing updates and of course the finished item when that time comes.

Best of luck. Keep us posted.

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:55 pm

so, this is the "strip teaser". very sexy body and a very graceful movement.

...see, this tree is perfect for a whole view.

thanks for showing it.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  Guest on Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:21 pm

Great material Helmut. Very complex and difficult tree. What are your plans?

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  hirow08 on Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:53 am

WOW! Love this tree.
if it was mine i wouldn't have an idea on how to style it!! Smile
I think it was struck by lightning?

Thanks for showing your great tree helmut! cheers

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  helmut_nittel on Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:23 pm

will baddeley wrote:Great material Helmut. Very complex and difficult tree. What are your plans?



...when it was in the pot like this i had no clue what to do I just loved the movement.
I thought of seperating two of the five trunks, but I decided to take a look at the roots before I do anything...

...after removing the soil I realized that mother nature has made an incredible 5-trunk-literate melting together in an amazing base.

I just tipped it to the left and planted it in a bonsaipot.

... 2.5 years is wrong... I took this foto in february 2009
Since then i took my time to bring the green back to the useful branches with pruning.

april 2010 I`ve chosen the front after cleaning the whole tree like you see on the first page and made the first design...

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  jrodriguez on Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:29 pm

Helmut,

This is a great piece of material that has to be approached in an orderly fashion. Perhaps a change in the planting angle might be the trick to solving the 'puzzle'. If the tree were mine, I would problably use this position:



The top portion will require heavy bending to position the branches properly, but the suggested planting position gives you a clear idea of how I will approach the tree. In this angle there is also wonderful play between the water lines and the dead portions. Also, please excuse the poor excuse for a 'virtual'.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis


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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  helmut_nittel on Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:53 am

Thanks Jose for the interesting virt.!

I had the chance to study the tree about 3 years and shot a hundred fotos of it`s details.

I reached the point where I can say: fotos are never enough to analyse a complex form like this exactly ( especially fotos like mine here jocolor )!
To give you a clue why it wasn`t possible to change the angle that far you have to see a different sight...

Suspect ... to keep the game running a little bit : Rolling Eyes as soon I get to my other PC ... Rolling Eyes

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  jrodriguez on Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:12 pm

Helmut,

I understand. Maybe a heavy root or branch wouldn't make it possible. Anyhow, very good tree.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis

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Re: only the tree matters...

Post  helmut_nittel on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:18 pm



... when you twist the original of your virt. just a little counter-clockwise then you see the dirction of the roots ( the straight thing in the middle is a bamboo-stick) ...

also a nice view for a possible front, but not my first choice, the really interresting stuff is hidden from this side....

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Re: only the tree matters...

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