Table manners

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Table manners

Post  Guest on Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:38 am

This Elm was shown at Bath. Feedback I had for the composition was encouraging but several people thought the table was too big. I would appreciate some ideas or virtuals of a more suitable stand. Preferably not too ornate. Thanks..

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Re: Table manners

Post  jon hultgren on Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:52 am

This could be an interesting topic to keep an eye on and learn from. Displaying bonsai is one of the things i just don't really get and I'm looking forward to hear what others have to say. That said I'll throw out a couple of things that don't seem right to me.

To me the stand seems to be kind of square, and squares just seem kind of unnatural and unstable to me. Also the red color of the stand tends to draw my eye downward as its such a bright color. I don't know how you fix those things or even if anyone else will say those are the aspects that need improving but those are my thoughts.

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table manners

Post  alex e on Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:29 am

Hi Will ,good to meet you in Bath, any chance of some dimensions
of the pot ?, will post a couple of stands I have that might fit the bill ThumbsUp

ALEX E

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table manners

Post  alex e on Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:18 am

Hi Will, a couple of ideas,
the first is based on you didn't want anything too fussy
the shape of the the pot and stand are similar & the tree
being quite masculine.


this next is in a similar vein but with slight soft curves to emulate
the movement in the trunk,its only my opinion hope it helps.
Alex e

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Re: Table manners

Post  fiona on Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:54 am

Will. I thought it might help the guys and gals to see the table and tree from more of a distance.



My own feeling is that while I personally am comfortable with the idea of it being square, I agree with Jon and Alex that this particular table is too high and too chunky for this tree. Regarding the height, I thought the ones Alex posted perhaps had erred too far the other way - although it is difficult to be absolute on that without seeing the tree on top of them. I shall have a rummage around my own table collection and do some crapvirting to see if I can come up with anything better. I think it is possible to maintain the "masculinity" of the tree but with a more delicate table.


Last edited by fiona on Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Table manners

Post  Jeremy on Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:21 am

Hi Will,
I feel the table is just about the right size, but a little heavy visually. A 2D picture can often inflate or exaggerate such issues, that in person will not stand out.
I can't say I noticed it being out of place at the show, the tree is a real stunner and the overall tree and stand combo. sat well enough for me.
I viewed you tree a few times. Each time seeing more I liked. My first recation was very positive and remained postive. I was very happy and surprised at the size, it looked much larger in your pictures. Such fine attention to detail and scale.

Heavy tables are often the reason for this sort of discussion. The actual size can be perfect and the tree sits well, but the visual weight and height of the table used needs to be carfully selected for each display, allowing the viewer to appreciate your tree as you intended.
Unless you have a warehouse full of varying styles and heights of display tables, or live very close to Doug Mudd, finding the 'right' table for your displays is always going to be a challange.

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Re: Table manners

Post  wabashene on Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:28 pm

Hi Will,

Glad we had a chance for a brief chat at JoB.

This was probably my favourite tree. The deadwood (all hand carved by your goodself iirc) and wiring job were both absolutely phenomenal.

Fi did the same as me and edited the pic to take out the wood divider and I did the same with someone else's pigeon breasted, backward facing, hawthorn placed a few tree's along which improved it somewhat.

Laughing

As it sits, its not obviously an elm and how to display it throws up an issue or 2 for me.

IMHO, a high stand implies a high location i.e. hill or mountain and accordingly the other elements would be expected to reflect this. The lovely cushion moss at the base of the tree evoked lush, moist meadow as did the accent so there seemed to be a little conflict there for me.

IMHO a low table (possibly slightly smaller) would look better with a little low reedy grass like a carex presenting an image of an ancient hedgerow/ river margin tree at the edge of a tussocky field.

Virt FWIW

Thks

TimR

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Re: Table manners

Post  Jeremy on Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:04 pm

wabashene wrote:As it sits, its not obviously an elm and how to display it throws up an issue or 2 for me.
IMHO, a high stand implies a high location i.e. hill or mountain and accordingly the other elements would be expected to reflect this. The lovely cushion moss at the base of the tree evoked lush, moist meadow as did the accent so there seemed to be a little conflict there for me.
IMHO a low table (possibly slightly smaller) would look better with a little low reedy grass like a carex presenting an image of an ancient hedgerow/ river margin tree at the edge of a tussocky field.
Hi,
I see the table height in a different way. Not as literal, low table= low land, high table= mountain
I tend to look for tables in my displays that simply shows the tree at the height I wish the tree to be viewed and that reflect the balance of the tree while not distracting the viewers attention from the tree. If I can evoke a moment that is special to the viewer, that increases their appreciation, then I am doubly happy.

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Re: Table manners

Post  Stone Monkey on Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:22 pm

Hi Will

We get to talk now even though we never had the chance at Bath Wink

I like the height of the table but the style of the table is not doing the whole image justice. Gordon's pot is very grounded and visually stable which suits the tree perfectly and wabashene's idea of a lower powerful table does work but IMHO still does not suit the tree.

I think you have a little bit of a quest on your hands here matey and being a potter I don't think I can offer to much advice Wink unless you want a ceramic one, now there's an innovation idea Shocked

I think you need to speak to Mr Mudd...... Twisted Evil

Love the tree and your Blackthorn even more, the pot for the B'Thorn was pretty good too, would look better in a something more classic Wink IMHO

I am sure we will cross path's in the not too distant future

All the best

Andy

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Re: Table manners

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:40 pm

Will,

How about this?

Without the stretcher...



And with...



Russell

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Re: Table manners

Post  geoff on Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:09 pm

Hi Will,
You asked for virtuals of your tree. I thought the table a bit on the tall side, I hadn't related to the mountain, lowland idea but I can see it now. I've generally used tall stands in a display if I wanted some variation in the height of the trees. Great trees, saw the blackthorn with foliage at Big Steve's show.

Regards Geoff

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Re: Table manners

Post  littleart-fx on Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:34 pm

Hi! Will,....The tree looks nice and has some great proportions!
The table or stand you have presented it on,.............. Evil or Very Mad
It has a mass of it's own.

How can i make myself clear,.......you have presented a natural shape with it's all natural neglects....GOOD THING
you have presented it to the eye and mind on a rectangular stand > (table i make these underestimated things! Twisted Evil )
The mind is twisted an seeks easy points of view,....!
The table or stand has a golden line in it 90 degrees 45 degrees it is divisible,....the attention of display is automatic drawn down.
Architectural habit of sizes.......90/45 45/45 45/22,5 etc.
And mind the mind gab there are more Twisted Evil

The last presented table of stand,...shows rectangular marquee on surface a little more rectangular to the left seems nice/right.
The fiddling branches tickle the negative space on left and there isn't many of that......

Nice trees should have there own.........


: cheers

Sorry, for my bad English,
........................... and so on and so on....

Machiel,

edit,.....post on my own post,...bad luck in measurements pot has its own golden / line on to its stand.
the glaze in the pot does take side fx,....it goes to the left with it's darker stripe.
but does not carry the fiddle,.....of the tree

as bin said, just a fiddler (on a roof)! sorry!

and in just as,....if i was just a ridge man,.........hear the song...... Sleep


Last edited by littleart-fx on Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Colour?

Post  gman on Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:39 pm

Love the tree Will...excellent
I think folks have given you lots to chew on for the shape and size of the table.... however IMO (not having seen it live) is that the colour of the stand should be darker....like a coffee mocha....just a thought.
Cheers Gman

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Re: Table manners

Post  geoff on Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:08 am

Littleart-fx said "a little more rectangular to the left seems nice/right.
The fiddling branches tickle the negative space on left and there isn't many of that......"
I think it does improve the image.


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Re: Table manners

Post  fiona on Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:15 am

The picture in that last post of Geoff's is closest to how my eye and brain would see this tree/table. IMHO both he and Littleart are correct in suggesting off-setting the tree on the table. I like the colour match of table and pot too.

For me, the table still needs to be a little higher though.

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Re: Table manners

Post  Guest on Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:33 pm

Thankyou to everyone with your input. The original stand was made high for viewing purposes but as has been mentioned, conflicts directly with the image of a lowland tree. I like the colour and simplicity of the low stand very much but perhaps it is still a bit low. Any other ideas?


Last edited by will baddeley on Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Table manners

Post  fiona on Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:15 pm

will baddeley wrote: Any other ideas?
Yep. Sell me the tree. Then all your problems with the stand issue would be over!

(Insert smiley of Fiona with cute little winning smile on her coupon)

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Re: Table manners

Post  littleart-fx on Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:44 pm

Hi!

Thanks Geoff sunny !

Grtzz M.,

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Re: Table manners

Post  Guest on Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:34 pm

fiona wrote:
will baddeley wrote: Any other ideas?
Yep. Sell me the tree. Then all your problems with the stand issue would be over!

(Insert smiley of Fiona with cute little winning smile on her coupon)

How could you possibly be happy owning this tree? to start with you would have to part with some money and furthermore it's an ENGLISH Elm.

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Re: Table manners

Post  fiona on Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:56 pm

I'll swallow my pride sufficiently!

And just knowing it came from you, Will.....


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Re: Table manners

Post  Guest on Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:39 pm

aaww shucks!!

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Re: Table manners

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:43 pm

If I recall this tree was at the lst Gingko and it was one of my favorites even with its relatively small size. I saw it again in leaf at the Green Lawns Show and liked it better without leaf.

I think it needs a rectangular stand where the top is about 33% bigger than the pot and the tree centered on the stand. The height of the stand should comply with the golden rule so the height of the stand should be equal tothe length of the pot if you make the stand

Width across front of stand = Length of pot*1.33
Height of stand = Width of stand *0.62

So in numbers if the pot is 12 inches across the stand should be
12*1.33 = 15.6 or 16 inches.
The height of the stand should be 16*0.62 = 9.7 inches but since this is a low land tree, I'd make the stand a bit shorter depending on with what else you display it with.

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Table manners

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:13 am

Hello Rob. Once an engineer, always an engineer! . Any chance of a tecnical drawing?

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Re: Table manners

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