Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:03 am

Good morning everyone!
I am a new member and a novice in bonsai art, too... And I am contacting you from Greece!

Well, yesterday I received a Fagus Sylvatica-English Beech pro-bonsai tree from UK, Great Yarmouth. (...by the way excellent service!)
The substrate in the pot is a relatively light soil with some quantity of Akadama.
Taking into consideration the stress of changing environment, I wonder should I repot the plant now or let it get acclimatized. And how long should I wait until repotting?
Could you please help me with your knowledge and experience?

Thank you in advance,

Alexandra.

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  JimLewis on Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:38 pm

As long as the tree appears to be healthy, I think I'd advise you to leave it alone for a bit. You are new to bonsai, and a repotting isn't something you may want to attack yet. Maybe you could find a potted shrub or tree for a bit less than you paid for this one and do some basic "bonsai-ing" on it as practice first.

And see also if you can find a book or two on bonsai (or read the articles on www.evergreengardenworks.com) to help you learn basic techniques.

We, of course, are always available to help by long distance if we can. Where in Greece are you? We've visited several times and love it there.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:43 pm

Thank you very much for your time, Jim!

In fact I have been studying for the last two years through the internet and the link you pasted is already familiar to me. I have browsed bonsai magazines and joined a local bonsai forum with the members of which we are trying to create the first bonsai club in Greece. There are some people here who work on bonsais for some years and have experience in some degree...

My friends of the "bonsaiclub.gr forum" have demonstated the repotting of a thujia of mine (nursery stock) which they have given a first styling, too. For the time being I am experimenting with two junipers, a pyracantha, a cupressus sempervivens and one berberis. Have already done some wiring and prunning! Laughing as well as air-layering on a punica granatum, a prunus, a bougenvillea and a hybiscus syriacus. I cannot wait to look inside the sphagnum moss for tiny roots! bounce So, wish me luck!

My intention when asking was to get advantage of your experience since here in Greece the hobby of bonsai art is still
in "swathing clothes" Smile and share your advice with my friends....
So, if you propose repotting, this could be done with the help of my friends. But if you decide on leaving the plant alone, will you please clarify how much time is this "for a bit". One month perhaps, or more?

One more thing, what about the temperature difference? Do you think the plant can survive in a warmer climate?


PS
JimLewis wrote: ... Where in Greece are you? We've visited several times and love it there.
In Athens! Thank you for your appreciation of my country! Where have you been?

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  JimLewis on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:06 pm

Well, Athens and environs, of course, but we spent most of our time in Rhodos where we have friends. We had a Greek girl live with us for a year as an exchange student. We all have visited her family at one time or another, she came back to be in our daughter's wedding, and has been back here for schooling.

As for your tree. I'd leave it be if the soil is OK as long as the tree appears to be healthy and happy. If it starts to look like it is ailing, then you can take steps, but there's no point in repotting for repotting's sake.

I'm not sure I can advise about the warmer temperatures, since I have never worked with that species. I have worked with the North American species (F. grandifolia) and it can take the heat just fine. That may mean nothing compared to the European beech. At the very least, I think I would grow it where it does not get full sun all day. Morning sun would be OK. The dryness of your air might be a bigger problem.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:15 pm

JimLewis wrote: ... ... We had a Greek girl live with us for a year as an exchange student. ... ...
Lucky girl!

JimLewis wrote: ... ... The dryness of your air might be a bigger problem.
You are absolutely right!
This is a major problem for all my plants!
Which I intend to confront by having my husband build a spray mist system Laughing

Thank you once again!

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Any suggestions...?

Post  my nellie on Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:03 pm

This is the fagus when received


This is after the leaves have fallen off. Pay no attention to the blue wires..., I was just experimenting Embarassed


And this is a poor quality sketch of mine as to what could be done concerning styling. My inexperienced eyes can see a windswept/fukinagashi.


Do you see something else? Could you kindly provide any sketch or editing the above pictures?

Thank you in advance.

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  AlainK on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:28 am

JimLewis wrote:(...)The dryness of your air might be a bigger problem.

I do agree with that: leaf-scorching might be a big problem, even if you keep it in a shaded place. It will probably survive if you take good care of it, but it's difficult to maintain it healthy-looking in Mediterranean climates.

I have the opposite problem where I live : I'm going to give away two olive-trees that I've had for some years because if they are OK in the summer, their period of vegetation is too short and over-wintering them is a problem without a greenhouse. It's a bit like trying to grow crepe myrtle, or even chili pepper, in Iceland: in a totally atrificial environment, they would probably survive, but I really doubt they will ever make great, or even good bonsai. Neutral

Olive, junipers, some species of pines would be a lot less trouble, much cheaper, and more rewarding in the end I think...

AlainK
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Tue Apr 27, 2010 6:24 am

Thank you for your comment, Alain!
No doubt I do agree with your post, but you see it's the novice excitement and hurry.... Rolling Eyes
But I promise I will do my best to take good care of my fagus and of course I do study study study
I have already ordered some kind of outdoor very fine misting system to install on the balcony ceiling so that the plants get some humidity and freshness during summer. The only thing is that the system should do what the seller promises it does.... Laughing
Any suggestion about styling, please.... Very Happy

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  AlainK on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:01 pm

For me, the first banch on the right is too straight and maybe shoukld off, but I wouldn't do it rignt now because it might help reducing what I feel is an inverse taper.

It's hard to define a style without the possibility of turning the tree round, tilting it and so forth. When looking at it "in real life", I would perhaps cut the second branch and layer it there...

Here, layering is done in mid-february, almost two months before the tree leafs out, and very easy to do.

AlainK
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:29 pm

I can see exactly what you mean.
This first branch on the right is meant to be a sacrifice branch.
As you can see in my sketch (is there really one?) this branch is missing, I do not like it either.

As far as the layering is concerned, I have no previous experience but I do have tried air-layering thick branches of a punica granatum, a hibiscus syriacus, a bougainvilea and a prunus. Except bougainvillea, the other three have sprouted fine white roots.
The layering was made last February, is it OK to cut the rooted branches now and pot them, what do you think?
Or should I leave them alone giving them a little more time to root properly?

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  JimLewis on Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:02 pm

I think I'd forget the "windswept" idea for this tree. That's the style thought of by most beginners when faced with a problem tree, but it also is a style that is most difficult to pull off successfully.

The typical shape of a beech is a large vase-like structure -- broom style in bonsai-speak.

Using your first picture (and lightening it up a bit) here is a suggestion: Chop that lowest right-hand branch, then wire that thin right hand branch out to the right. Cut that fat stub branch back, the get rid of the long, straight trunk going upward -- if possible; I can't see what else may come off of it.

Then let it grow for the summer. Repot early next spring, and when you do, tilt the entire tree slightly to the right.


_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:17 pm

Thank you for your time, Jim!
This is much more realistic approach! And more suitable for the beginner-me... Smile
Broom style is not bad! Not at all !

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:26 am

JimLewis wrote: ... ... Chop that lowest right-hand branch, ... ...
Hello Jim and everyone!
Me and my questions again.... Embarassed
Do you see any sense if I would keep this branch as a "sacrifice" for achieving a better grown trunk? Or even as an "anchor" for wiring purposes?
Could this concept be working?
If affirmative, how long should it be left on the tree? One year, two...?

Thank you!

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  AlainK on Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:14 pm

my nellie wrote:I can see exactly what you mean.
This first branch on the right is meant to be a sacrifice branch.
As you can see in my sketch (is there really one?) this branch is missing, I do not like it either.

As far as the layering is concerned, I have no previous experience but I do have tried air-layering thick branches of a punica granatum, a hibiscus syriacus, a bougainvilea and a prunus. Except bougainvillea, the other three have sprouted fine white roots.
The layering was made last February, is it OK to cut the rooted branches now and pot them, what do you think?
Or should I leave them alone giving them a little more time to root properly?

If you mean February last year, it might be OK, but you mention "fine white roots": they might not be strong enough to cut the layer now, I would perhaps wait for September or October, just after they've lost their leaves.

If you mean February 2010, wait!

AlainK
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:55 pm

AlainK wrote: ... ... I would perhaps wait for September or October, just after they've lost their leaves.
If you mean February 2010, wait!

This I will do, thank you Alain!
Just something else...
When unwrapping the nylon bag to check the sphagnum moss for roots I saw a lot of tiny ants creeping around (and all over the branches of the tree). What should I do about this?
I mean when cutting the layered branch in next Fall, could I use some kind of insecticide for those ants?

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Fagus Updated

Post  my nellie on Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:22 am

With lots of new vegetation as it was yesterday...


And after first partial defoliation of the inner leaves yesterday...


For pinching the emerging new shoots in Spring and defoliation I followed the instructions I found in this article which I think is very useful:
Advanced Prunning Techniques for Fagus Sylvatica
I did no defoliation to the right sacrifice branch.

Question: If I repot hopefully next Spring (following the styling that Jim quoted), should I keep the sacrifice branch for one more year?

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:55 am

I have a new question for you dear IBC members.
The beech has no sign of bud swelling up to now.... I can understand this. But during these last weeks I have noticed that 2 or 3 of the buds at the tips of branches had opened (kind of) their tiny dry leaves, I mean that the bud is not compact any more... The rest of them are tightly folded so far.
This morning I took off those specific buds and they shed off, they raveled... This means that the bud was dead, doesn't it?
I hope you can understand what I describe here...
Is it normal? Is it possible that some of the last year's buds are ruined?
Thank you!

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Fagus Sylvatica what should i do

Post  sunip on Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:04 pm

Is it normal? Is it possible that some of the last year's buds are ruined?
Thank you![/quote]
Hello Alexandra,
Surely possible, i had that experience myself.
Regarding the move from the UK to Athens on a balcony, the tree will be quit late with buds to open.
When i look out of the window and in the greenhouse not much happens here on the fagus yet.
Did you have a strong second flush of green last summer?
Problem i think is, they tend to grow dense canopy's to shield the trunk from strong sun, because they sure not like sun on it.
On a bonsai you like a open structure with lots of light, also for green near the trunk.
I think a sun-cover-netting or something would be helpful, keep the soil surface humid (not wet) in the warmer periods.
You got no insect problems?
If you want to repot do it before buds begin to move, be careful though they have miccorhizzum to.
(you got such nice olives pistachea trees platanus and so on why a Fagus Sylvatica? That tree must be something special.)
regards, Sunip Wink

sunip
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:11 pm

Good evening, Sunip!
Thank you for responding.

Well, the choice of this Fagus is a matter of the so wellknown beginners' rush and my liking of the Beech as a tree (leaves and form when aged). There are beeches here in Greece but of course they live higher than my altitude Embarassed
Anyway, what is done cannot be undone. The beech is here and with "a little help from my friends" I will try my best to keep her alive!
I grow also native trees, olive, myrtus, oleaster, carrob/ceratonia and I am preparing for phillyrea, cotinus and platanus.

Last summer the tree indeed had this second flush of leaves after the removing tips of the new shoots(as I've read in a relative article about pruning a beech). During summer the tent on the balcony is pulled down, thus I believe there is no sun problem for her except heat.
No problem with any insect up to now except some kind of oidium (because of misting system overhead...)





Last edited by my nellie on Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling correction)

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Fagus Sylvatica what should i do

Post  sunip on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:42 pm

Hello Alexandra,
Well give it some time, beech is not so fast at times.
regards, Sunip Wink

sunip
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Mon May 30, 2011 3:30 pm

Well, a very sad update on my beech...
She is dead! I pruned some tips of the branches, I scratched the bark and I cannot see any sign of green colour...
But I cannot understand this.... She had gone normally to winter sleep alive and she is never awaken...
When I made the repoting (I just changed the pot and the planting angle, no root pruning) I have not noticed any problem with the roots.
I have loved this little tree....
Does anyone have any idea?

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  sunip on Mon May 30, 2011 6:05 pm

Hi Alexandra,
By now beech should have leaves.
Any chance the roots dehydrated completely during the winter?
regards, Sunip

sunip
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  my nellie on Tue May 31, 2011 11:14 am

Hello, Sunip!
I believe not. I do water my deciduous plants during winter, sparingly of course but I do not leave them completely dry, if this is what you mean....
Thank you for posting.

my nellie
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Fagus Sylvatica-What should I do???

Post  Sponsored content Today at 12:33 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum