Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

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Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  daviddunn on Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:29 pm

I recently fell in love with this Japanese white pine, and have decided to purchase it in the very near future. The white pine branches were grafted onto black pine stock many years ago, there are no visual clues that show any of the grafts, it was done very well. My teacher got this tree from Japan in the early 1990s. He hasn't had much time to wire the branches like they really need, so many of them have started to grow upwards. I think with a good solid day of wiring this tree would look amazing.

There is something about this tree that I really love, it has beautiful movement, and a nice flattened canopy. My only concern is with the two lowest branches. They seem to be "bar branches", which I understand can cause reverse taper. Do you think this is something to be concerned about? I know that symmetrical branches are generally frowned upon, but I think it actually looks well on this tree, almost like a mini version of the famous "Yamaki" white pine at the US Arboretum in Washington DC. I would appreciate some good honest feedback on this tree.

Thanks for the input.


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Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:00 am

Hello David. I think you need to remove the left bottom branch. The pine has good movement and taper but will be much improved with the removal of the branch on the inside curve.

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  daviddunn on Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:08 am

Thanks Will,

My concern is that the tree will look "one sided". Would you mind coming up with some sort of virtual of what you might do with this tree?

Thanks again.

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Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:19 am

I would be happy to do a virtual for you. Can you take another photo a little higher, as the branch to be removed, masks the upper branches.I don't think the pine will look one sided with careful wiring.

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  daviddunn on Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:28 am

Here are all of the photos I have at the moment, I hope they will give you a better idea of branch placement.

Thanks for the help.






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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  daviddunn on Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:44 am

I'm not sure if this is possible or not, I'll have to inspect the current branch structure to see for sure, but it does look much better.

Its a tough decision though, I would still be interested in other virtuals and feedback.

Thanks.


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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  Velodog2 on Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:38 am

I agree that one of them has to go, and if one of them has to go, it has to be the left one. This should be an interesting tree down the road with rugged black pine bark on the trunk and white pine needles.

Who is selling this?

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  Joe Hatfield on Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:41 am

I think removal of the left side looks good. I don't think it looks bad at all.

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  JimLewis on Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:59 am

There's actually 3 branches there, right -- a small one in the front? Maybe it should go too?

I'd suggest a short jin from that left-hand branch, but wire it moving strongly down -- almost like a branch was broken off near the trunk, then died, laving a stub. You could either wire it down before you chop it, or right after while the wood is still pliable. The jin should not be too long.

I think you'll have fun working on this one.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  Ian Young on Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:38 pm

I agree that the bottom left branch must go. It will only continue to thicken the tree at that point. You have loads of options with the remaining branches and will probably have to thin it out even more. Your own virtual clearly shows that it will be all the better for the removal. I would suggest using part of the first back branch to give a flash of green to the left of the trunk as you look at the front. This will add to the depth of the image and allay any fears you have of it looking sparse or one sided. It will also show off more of the beautiful bark.

Nice tree, if the price is right, I'd go for it.

Regards

Ian

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  daviddunn on Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:31 pm

Just curious, what range would you consider the "right price" for this tree?

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  Ian Young on Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:53 pm

Price is subjective. Times are hard everywhere! Not a good time to be a bonsai dealer/ nursery owner. Price varies greatly by area as well. In Ireland we have a very poor market for bonsai and getting what a tree is worth is impossible. If you cross the water to the UK mainland, prices rise but still vary greatly from what I can see. I'm not sure about the US but the cost of importing has to be a big factor.

It really comes down to what you are willing to pay for it! If in doubt ask a few bonsai enthusiasts locally for advice. Clubs and societies can be a big help with this.

Hope this helps, but probably not!! :-)

Regards

Ian

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  Joe Hatfield on Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:26 pm

I have seen trees here in Pennsylvania, go for anywhere between $200-500... But I don't think that really helps you.. I have seen what I call "Consumer Crap" sold for 500 times what I would pay for it. It's worth what you are willing to pay.

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  daviddunn on Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:34 pm

I understand that price is subjective, but I'm trying to get an idea of what my fellow IBC members would expect to pay for this tree.

I'm not basing my decision on this, but I would really appreciate the input.

Thanks.

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  nguyen75 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:27 pm

daviddunn wrote:I understand that price is subjective, but I'm trying to get an idea of what my fellow IBC members would expect to pay for this tree.

I'm not basing my decision on this, but I would really appreciate the input.

Thanks.
with this tree base with trunk and the pot it about 250 $ to 300 $

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  daviddunn on Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:36 pm

Wow! Seriously?

I haven't seen anything like this sell for under $1,500. From what I've seen here in the US, Japanese white pines seem to sell for huge amounts of money, especially with some age, and a nice trunk.

Do you seriously know of a bonsai nursery that has trees like this for $250-$300? If so, I'd really like to check it out, please send me a PM.

Thanks.

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  nguyen75 on Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:35 pm

daviddunn wrote:Wow! Seriously?

I haven't seen anything like this sell for under $1,500. From what I've seen here in the US, Japanese white pines seem to sell for huge amounts of money, especially with some age, and a nice trunk.

Do you seriously know of a bonsai nursery that has trees like this for $250-$300? If so, I'd really like to check it out, please send me a PM.

Thanks.
hi daviddunn there are some white pine sell on ebay last week rank from 350 to 450 most of them from the west you should check this seller king1715 or you can check back www.sexybonsai.com he from PA not far from you much

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  peter keane on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:26 pm

Hi David

you can check out New England Bonsai Gardens in Bellingham, MA for japanese white pines. They have a great selection in a wide price range.

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

Post  martin kolacia on Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:33 pm

Hi ,
I think left branch is better because if you give this branch cca 30° down , branch will be in parallel move with trunk.. it will look much better then right branch

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Re: Japanese white pine (possible problem branch?)

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