How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

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How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Tony on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:07 pm

I have used a heating bed for over ten years as the best way to increase the recovery of collected yamadori... giving me a success rate of over 95%. The building of my new Greenhouse meant that I could have a new much larger heating bed. This is how I made it.

The whole frame is 12ft x 3ft The Timber was 9”x 2”. There is NO base to the frame, it is laid directly on the stone flags. The Timber is held together with 6” galvanized bolts



A layer of silver backed ‘bubble’ insulation is laid directly on the floor. I could have used 1” Polystyrene block, but this proved OK.





To ensure that the moisture is retained the whole frame is lined with a Heavy Duty Polythene Sheet, and ‘stapled’ into position, particular attention is given to the corners. Holes are cut into the edges to afford drainage as the bed would fill with water and this is not desirable.







Batons are screwed into the top of the frame to secure the Polythene Sheet, galvanised screws are used.



12 bags of Kiln Dried Sand are used to line the base of the frame, 2” deep. This Sand never ‘hardens’ and is a joy to work with. ‘Builders’ sand is not suitable. The Sand is then saturated with water





The heating cable (80ft long) is placed as shown and covered with a further 2” of Sand. The heating cable is unwound and plugged in. This is to 'soften' the cable as it is very stiff when cold.





The completed Heating Bed, the cable is secured to the frame with a cable clip and the whole bed is saturated with water.







The raw yamadori now has a comfortable resting place to recover and thrive. Now... go and make one for yourself thumbs up


Last edited by Tony on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Smithy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:09 pm

That is first class Tony. I would love to have the space to do that.

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Mario Stefano on Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:00 am

Thanks Tony.
It is a great solution. 'Like all plants to keep your feet warm and moist. This is a very modern warm beams!

Regards
Mario

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:52 am

Excellent work Tony. Yours is twice the size of mine! Shocked I used builders polystyrene sheet to line mine, then a thick polythene liner to keep the sand and moisture in.

Be cautious about anything puncturing the liner, as a colleague at our club caused his to overheat when he didn't notice that sand had been washed out and left the cable able to move and touch.

Don't forget that as well as getting better rooting from yamadori, this doubles up as a giant seed propagator, cutting striker and out of season vergetable grower. Keep all of the surface covered and you minimise heat loss and maximise production. I start all my tomatoes, chillis, aubergines, beans etc on mine after any yamadori have gone out in late spring.

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Pavel Slovák on Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:17 am

Hi Tony my friend.

Very useful thing. Super. ThumbsUp ThumbsUp

Pavel

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:24 pm

Very interesting Tony. I don't do enough collecting to justify this for yamadori but something like this might be needed for me to survive the chilling down of our area. My collection can't survive another cold winter like I had this year without some energy added protection. Buttonwoods would love this.

Did you add a thermometer to the sand and to the air to monitor temperature? Do you know how many KWhrs this will use per month?


Last edited by Rob Kempinski on Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  landerloos on Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:34 pm

Tony,

great article.

ThumbsUp Peter

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  flor1 on Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:35 pm

Looks great I'm not sure if you can get it there but you might look at mason sand as apposed to kiln dried should be cheaper and should work.

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Tony on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:13 pm

Hi Rob, the power used is equivalent to a 150KW light bulb, I have it on permanently. I have never used a thermostat relying on regularly checking the bed, at least three times a day.

Flor1. I looked at a few 'sands' and there were cheaper but they were not bagged. You had to purchase 'bulk'

the next phase of the heating bed is to install an automatic misting system that will keep the trees damp and humid.... humid muuuuum thumbs up

Kev. I have made slits in the liner because I do not want the bed to flood, this happened with my first bed a few years back.

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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:34 pm

I think Tony meant a 150 watt light bulb. Wink If not, I'd hate for Caroline to see the bill!

Mine is on a thermostat which has a long probe into the sand. It works very well and keep the temperature nice and even.

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:49 pm

Kev Bailey wrote:I think Tony meant a 150 watt light bulb. Wink If not, I'd hate for Caroline to see the bill!.

Yes that sounds right. 150,000 watts would cook the trees. bounce rabbit cherry

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:12 pm

How hot does the sand get?

With my experience with liquids and heaters, the heat shouldn't reach the bottom through the sand. This seems like it would make a nice setup for my tropicals in the basement during the winter. I have a 2 ft x 8 foot table in the basement.

I would also expect, that you could increase the amount of cable in a specific area to raise the temperature, compared to zones that don't need as much heat.

Great set up, thanks!

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:48 pm

With a thermostat, you can set it at whatever temperature you desire. Mine stays at 65F 18C though I push it up to 70F 21C for germinating some seeds and rooting some cuttings.

I'd love to add a mist propagator for hard to root things. Mebbe when my lottery ticket comes up!

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Harleyrider on Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:24 pm

Nice work, Tony. I particularly like the 'action shot' of you watering in the sand! Spielberg, my arse!

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Marko on Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:53 pm

Sorry to reignite an older thread but i'am finally going to get round to building one of these in the new year. I've had the sand and cable sitting since Tony first posted this thread but have'nt had the time Sad

I do have some questions regarding the bed once in operation and hope someone can answer these "what might seem niave questions" so here goes:

1. Is there a specific temperature which is optimum for newly collected trees?

2. Also given that the plants substrate is warmer it will dry quicker. I guess i'am asking here how often do you water at a specific temperature and know when to water?

3. Can the bed be used to keep a trees rootball from freezing in minus temps without sending the tree into an early Spring? My thinking is that material could be collected all winter without the fear of the rootball freezing? Suspect

I'm sure Ive other questions rattling about in here somewhere but thats all I can think of for know?
Embarassed in advance

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Guest on Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:56 pm

Dear Tony

This is a really good solution.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Marko on Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:05 pm

Sorry to reignite an older thread but i'am finally going to get round to building one of these in the new year. I've had the sand and cable sitting since Tony first posted this thread but have'nt had the time

I do have some questions regarding the bed once in operation and hope someone can answer these "what might seem niave questions" so here goes:

1. Is there a specific temperature which is optimum for newly collected trees?

2. Also given that the plants substrate is warmer it will dry quicker. I guess i'am asking here how often do you water at a specific temperature and know when to water?

3. Can the bed be used to keep a trees rootball from freezing in minus temps without sending the tree into an early Spring? My thinking is that material could be collected all winter without the fear of the rootball freezing?

I'm sure Ive other questions rattling about in here somewhere but thats all I can think of for know
Rolling Eyes

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Tony on Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:45 pm

1. Is there a specific temperature which is optimum for newly collected trees? I do not use a temp gauge , however the bed maintains an even temperature of around 7ºc

2. Also given that the plants substrate is warmer it will dry quicker. I guess i'am asking here how often do you water at a specific temperature and know when to water? In the depth of winter I check twice a day and water manually, from March till October an Automatic misting system 2 minutes 4 times a day

3. Can the bed be used to keep a trees rootball from freezing in minus temps without sending the tree into an early Spring? My thinking is that material could be collected all winter without the fear of the rootball freezing? this what I use the bed for, however I collect mostly march till may.

Hope this helps

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‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Marko on Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:46 am

Great stuff Tony, thats much appreciated, thankyou!
confused Rolling Eyes Very Happy

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  stavros on Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:25 pm

tony wrote:1. Is there a specific temperature which is optimum for newly collected trees? I do not use a temp gauge , however the bed maintains an even temperature of around 7ºc

[

Only 7 degrees C??
I would assume that you need a higher temperature for the fine roots to grow on yamadori, around 18 degrees C.

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cost

Post  bucknbonsai on Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:50 am

For such a big bed, bagged sand would be extremely expensive. Can the builders sand that can be bought buy the truck load be used?

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:53 am

Hello Tomy. Has this system greatly improved your survival rate?

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Tony on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:43 am

Stavros... this is England the land of Wet and Cold, Cyprus = Dry and warm, your trees are different. 7c is enough to get the roots moving, plus I do not want to force or stress the tree once collected, its a fine balance between life and death.

Will. SUBSTANTIALLY affraid

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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  Tony on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:45 am

bucknbonsai wrote:For such a big bed, bagged sand would be extremely expensive. Can the builders sand that can be bought buy the truck load be used?

Hi Buck, the sand was £45 in total... expensive for sand yes... but it does not go 'solid'

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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: How to make your own Heating bed to aid Yamadori survival

Post  stavros on Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:55 pm

tony wrote:Stavros... this is England the land of Wet and Cold, Cyprus = Dry and warm, your trees are different. 7c is enough to get the roots moving, plus I do not want to force or stress the tree once collected, its a fine balance between life and death.

Will. SUBSTANTIALLY affraid

Well, if you think about it, especially up the north of England, 7 degrees C is fine Laughing Laughing Laughing

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