Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  AJ on Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:41 pm

As someone who uses the term "form" when describing the shape of trees, bonsai or otherwise, I would like to offer my reasoning for doing so. This is how I organize my own thinking on the subject; it's not meant as a command or even a suggestion for others to do the same.

For me, in agreement with how I read Matija's comments, style has to do with the human influence in how a thing is done. In bonsai we might have a Kimura style, a Pall style, a Classical style, or a Chinese style, or many other possibilities.

For me, differing perhaps from what Matija wrote, form speaks more to the way a thing naturally, or organically, occurs. When we observe the forms assumed by trees in nature we find there are many more than 12, or whatever number is generally used. Maybe we can say there are a certain number of elemental forms, like informal upright, formal upright, slanting, etc., and many more that are combinations, such as formal upright, semi-slanting literati:



But these categories of shape refer to the natural development of trees. All over the world, we find trees growing in shapes, or forms, that can be categorized by their similarities or differences. In bonsai, we are usually mimicking, sometimes in a very representational way and sometimes in a more abstract way, these naturally occurring forms. It can be argued that when we work on our bonsai, or "style" them, although we base our design on a naturally occurring form, our human activity creates a style that is based on the form. I wouldn't argue too much with that line of reasoning.

However, I find it more useful to stick with the concept of form when describing the shape of a bonsai, as it relates to the natural example. That leaves the concept of style to describe a completely separate element of the tree's design.

To illustrate, I would describe this bonsai as being in the Slanting form, but Classical in style:



And this bonsai I would identify as being a Semi-cascade, Root Exposed form in the Naturalistic style:



Again, this is only my personal way of thinking on the subject, but it makes sense to me.

AJ
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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:54 pm

My question is, Are the Japanese as "true to form" on the rules of bonsai as some non-Japanese bonsai artists?

I have always considered the "rules of Bonsai" to be more guidelines than rules. By broom style (or category) are we talking about the overall outline of the tree as we look at it: Or, are we talking about a style in which the trunk forkes into two branches, and the branches fork into two branches, and they fork into branches until you get a uniform picture of a whole bunch of little forking branches (sorry, couldn't help myself).

If we are looking to style a tree than we need to accept that the tree has a wee bit of a part in the styling. If we are looking to form an exact 1 into 2 into 4 into 8, etc ramification of a trunk, then every last tree looks the same. That might qualify as a tree, it might even qualify as botany, but unless it happens in cooperation with the tree, I would hesitate to refer to it as living "art".

Rules are meant to be broken, in a great many photos in this forum you can see the rulles broken to the benefit of the tree.

JMHO!

Jay Gaydosh
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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  anttal63 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:55 pm

Nice one AJ, thats got a ring to it for me. I think that the majority see's this line of thought and all that stands in our way is the language of our habitus and how we percieve the words. cheers

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  William Feldman on Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:43 am

Here's a zelkova from the vendor area at this year's Kokufu:




And another one:

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Gary Swiech on Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:11 pm

Here's 2 of my broom Zelkova.

The first is 27" and was grown from a pencil sized tree in 1989.

The second is a cutting of the first.

Both have orange red fall color.




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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Guest on Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:10 pm

This topic was started up long before I began to follow the IBC, and I see it for the first time....

I see a few broomstyle, and a LOT of informal upright trees.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:29 am

I also missed this,
thank God Gary revived it! Ity was very very entertaining and educational, I enjoyed Walters lessons the most, Fionas wit and AlainK's humor had me in tears...
I'm going to photograph my catogorized broom Styled FORM Bonsai Tree quickly... Laughing Laughing

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  jrodriguez on Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:25 pm

Here's one. Not yet finished, as secondary branches need thickening. Triphasia trifolia (large tree).


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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Viriato Oliveira on Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:01 pm

Hello all,

I want to participated in this post with my project of a broom style (double trunk) on a Fagus of mine.

Very nice bonsai I see in this post! congrats to the owners.Wink




Best regards
Viriato Oliveira

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Smithy on Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:42 pm

Viriato Oliveira wrote:Hello all,

I want to participated in this post with my project of a broom style (double trunk) on a Fagus of mine.

Very nice bonsai I see in this post! congrats to the owners.Wink




Best regards
Viriato Oliveira

I love your broom Viriato, a lovely little image. Great colours.

Smithy
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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Mário Eusébio on Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:20 pm

Hi!

Mário, what You are argueing it is a "La Palisse" truth Smile but it is not as simple as that!

You can allways says that a horse is not a horse, a chair is not a chair and so on, but this do not means You are correct and the big majority is Wrong!

I agree with Your concerning Walter skills and I think the big majority thinks the same, but You now what??? A great artist (like Walter is) only can "break" the rules when he knows them, unless the pseudo-artists that use to say it is their "vision" of the art. I'm sure that Walter knows everything about "classic" bonsai (tree in pot Smile ) and even he has lot's of classic Bonsai!

There are some misunderstandig in Your vision and Your opinion about bonsai! First, bonsai have rules...that are no more then guide lines to nature behaviour for each style and/or species. Some of the rules are precisely reflexion of what nature is about, like proportion, balance, etc...

Second, You say that You never saw a tree in nature like You see the classical Bonsai, so "clean",it is because, maybe You never did a walk troughh the fields or the forest where the trees are exposed to the natural clima and weather conditions, because if You do that for sure you will find lots of natural "classic" bonsai.

And among others I can end the list with Bonsai is also a vision, a soul state etc.. WABI-SABI, the ugly beautifulness of bonsai Smile

Walter naturalistic vision, (that I like) is not the same of let grow and have trees in pots, tires or whatever You may think that can be used to plant a tree. Naturalistic is sometimes much more difficult to achieve then the "normal" classic Bonsai.

Best regards,

Mário Eusébio

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Rui Marques on Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:02 am

JimLewis wrote:Let's get back to brooms.

cheers

Rui Marques
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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Andre Beaurain on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:11 pm

Yvonne Graubaek wrote:
Gary Swiech wrote:I'd still air-layer the bonsai.

This tree has such a beautiful top on it and if you notice in the picture that big root feeds the front of the trunk
and you can actually see a bulge it's creating. Not only does it need to be air-layered but after it's air-layered the 2 trunks of equal size
will be closer to the soil and well, I think that's just the way to go on this one.



I'd air-layer the bonsai.

Opinions, opinions.

I second that....Sorry Andre


Yvonne you just want to turn my Tree into a shohin, hey? Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm going to put my Celtis into another tread so that we can discuss it furter. I think its unfare to do it in here..

But I can post another BROOM......

Something is wrong, I cant drag the photo onto the tread.. is anybody else having difficulty?


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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  JimLewis on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:05 pm

I have only one broom-in-progress, a small generic Japanese maple.


_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  BrianG on Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:55 pm

My Crape Myrtle ready for a bonsai pot next spring. The recent rain been knocking out the flowers.


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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Mitch Thomas on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:09 pm

That's a very nice start on a crepe myrtle! You may think about not letting it set seed. It will use a lot of energy that can be utilized on ramification. IMHO

Mitch

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  marcus watts on Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:59 am

haha - classic IBC thread this one - Laughing

originally I thought it would take an hour or more to read but over half the space is wasted by people quoting and requoting big pictures - is this just my pet hate? its so easy to remove the image code from the quote isnt it?

I think there is a very simple way to decide what is and what isnt.......imagine a high end national bonsai show with prizes for each named style - would each owner of the posted trees enter the broom catagory or the informal upright ?

I've just popped out with the camera to the benches and I havent got a tree that i consider a broom there to show everyone - (I think quite a few of the pictures in the thread are from similar people), but there are a few absolute stunners here too, nice thread.

cheers marcus


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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  my nellie on Mon Jun 18, 2012 9:10 am

marcus watts wrote: ... ...over half the space is wasted by people quoting and requoting big pictures - is this just my pet hate? its so easy to remove the image code from the quote isnt it?... ...
Much more than this, there is absolutely no need of quoting IF my post is exactly under the particular last post to which I am referring (in other words, there has been no other response in between)....

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  JimLewis on Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:10 pm

Much more than this, there is absolutely no need of quoting IF my post is exactly under the particular last post to which I am referring (in other words, there has been no other response in between)....

But that doesn't always happen. It is always better to quote at least SOME of the message you are answering.

You can highlight, then copy, paste, highlight, and click on the "quote" icon above (as I did here), or you can hit "quote" then cut the parts of the quoted post (INCLUDING the pictures), leaving the important parts.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Ryan B on Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:29 pm

Here's one of my favorite Brooms. Can't remember the source but it was tauted as "the 3rd best broom
Zelkova in Japan.". Would love to see 1st and 2nd!


Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/


Last edited by Ryan B on Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Mispelling)

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Ryan B on Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:40 pm

Like Zelkova, Kiyohime maples in Japan are Often styled as brooms. Their growth habit makes it the natural style.




Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  AndyRutledge on Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:56 am

This is my U. parvifolia broom(ish) early this past spring, recovering from my having cut all branches back to stubs last year. It's quite juvenile looking in this photo, but it'll be presentable in a couple years.


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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Rui Marques on Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:07 pm

Hi Andy,

Love your elm, just in naturalistic style.

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  JimLewis on Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:34 pm

Can't remember the source but it was tauted as "the 3rd best broom
Zelkova in Japan.". Would love to see 1st and 2nd!

Me too. That one looks like a lampshade.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Gary Swiech on Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:02 pm

Usually it will look terrible right away, like a man made massacre.

Walter,

You certainly have a way of telling the truth. You are the man! Wink

Gary Swiech
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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

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