Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  anttal63 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:05 am

My goodness me now that is out there. Thats a broom with 2 brooms Shocked Fantastic tree!!! cheers

Shape/Form. Rob thanks for putting it better than me. Will that is a great way to explain it. cheers

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  pine queen on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:08 am

[quote="bontailo"]Myrciaria Cauliflora of mine.

One of my favorite plant species. I have no idea how you grew this Jaboticaba to look this way bontailo but I tip my hat to you. This tree has a great style for the species with equally great form. I have never seen anything remotely close to this before. Does this particular jabot have a unique growth quirk or is this simply all horticulture training?

Q

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  suthin on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:51 am

Lo , Very nice tree.
Here is my Trident maple

Best regards
suthin

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  suthin on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:53 am

Florida Elm

Best regards
suthin

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  suthin on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:56 am

Zelkova

Best regards
suthin
www.royalbonsaigarden.com

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:57 am

[quote="bontailo"]Myrciaria Cauliflora of mine.

Hi Lo, welcome back to the IBC. Your tree has really developed dense branching. Almost too dense but it sure looks good.

Interesting to hear you have had cold weather also - I guess the whole northern hemisphere has been hammered this year with cold weather.

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:59 am

suthin wrote:Here is my Trident maple
suthin

Suthin, I see some nice trees on those benches.
The Florida Elm is looking good. The nebari has really come in nicely after air layering.
How warm do you keep that green house?

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  suthin on Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:12 pm

Rob, the temperature in the green house is about 30-32f.
Best regards
suthin

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  pine queen on Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:51 pm

Takes time for the griddle to warm up but we are cooking now. The brooms are coming out of the closet chambers ...rejoice.

Q

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  anttal63 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:00 pm

I have been so inspired by this thread that today i went and purchased this trident to style as a Broom form. Then Suthin you post that Cool
I hope that i can make mine half the tree yours is. AMAZING. thanks. All please forgive me for posting this tree amongst such grandeur of bonsai's. cheers


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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Kev Bailey on Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:54 pm

If you think that broom form can only be the standard straight trunk with all branches emanating from almost the same point, you should read the section on brooms in this:- http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_StylingForms.html

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:25 pm

Kev Bailey wrote:If you think that broom form can only be the standard straight trunk with all branches emanating from almost the same point, you should read the section on brooms in this:- http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_StylingForms.html

That's a very nice explanation of his interpretation of "style" versus "form". It was just the opposite of what I had thought but I understand his explanation: form defines the trunk, style the branch arrangement. If that was what Walter was getting it I can accept it. Although I doubt it is really that simple in that one can style a trunk to have a different form. So while the trunk was styled it has a new form.

As for broom, it seems to me according to the definition that the defining characteristic of a broom is the branch arrangement hence the style - so it is not a broom form but a broom style.

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:30 pm

will baddeley wrote:Rob. I feel "form" in this context pertains to trees natural growth habit, or environmental influences. "Style", is our interpretation of those trees. I bet you never imagined all this when you kicked off this thread.
I was lying in bed last night, thinking about form versus style ( as you do ) and for example take a windswept. The form of a windswept is governed by two factors. The growth habit of the particular tree and environmental influence. A windswept tree will lean away from provailing wind and the majority of the branches and twigs also, but more often than not the Form is a mish mash of tangled branches and very little definition. Other than an eliptical blob on the top of a leaning trunk.
The windswept style is a long way from this. I have seen many trees where the trunk leans into the wind and the branches with the wind. I personally don't mind this and although incorrect as a natural windswept would look, adds a sense of drama and balance. The structure of the branches are styled to give movement, order and separation, and if done well, will fool the viewer into thinking they can almost hear the wind whistleing through the tree.

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  fiona on Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:03 pm

It was actually Andrija that asked the direct question "Please, can you explain me what exactly means term "category" and why is that important?"

Andrija, the question arose from the discussions in the thread regarding styles. Mount Rushmore -no sorry Pine Queen - is the only person to uses the term "category" and I suspect he means simply style, or possibly a sub-section of a style. Whatever, it is not a term you'll find in the bonsai books etc.

On the other hand, informal broom is - and not just in Walter's eyes. I am now up to over a dozen good publications in which it is referenced. Maybe you'll just have to "accept" it PQ, even if you don't agree personally.

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  AlainK on Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:24 pm

Oooo, my head...

From now on, I will refuse to call any of my potted tree "Hokidachi", "Broom" or anything. Anyway, so far, most of them don't fit exactly in any category, they have no style, and I'm not in good form at the moment.

This kind of thread makes me feel like working on my "trees", especially those that I can't seem to find the right option, but I have no greenhouse, it would be too risky to take them in if only for minor work... Rolling Eyes

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  JimLewis on Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:39 pm

Oh my! What's in a word? Broom? Form? Style? Shape? Category? Concept? Artichoke?

Aaaargh!

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:50 pm

JimLewis wrote:Oh my! What's in a word? Broom? Form? Style? Shape? Category? Concept? Artichoke?

Aaaargh!
....

Questions were asked......Just trying to help.........I'll get my coat.....

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Andrija Zokic on Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:52 pm

fiona wrote:It was actually Andrija that asked the direct question "Please, can you explain me what exactly means term "category" and why is that important?"

Andrija, the question arose from the discussions in the thread regarding styles. Mount Rushmore -no sorry Pine Queen - is the only person to uses the term "category" and I suspect he means simply style, or possibly a sub-section of a style. Whatever, it is not a term you'll find in the bonsai books etc.

On the other hand, informal broom is - and not just in Walter's eyes. I am now up to over a dozen good publications in which it is referenced. Maybe you'll just have to "accept" it PQ, even if you don't agree personally.

Fiona, I understand that Pine queen by category means style, but it is absurd that someone do not accept existence of something that obviously exists. It is similar if someones said that Sun do not raise in the morning.

Can be accepted that Mr. Lo's bonsai is twin trunk broom?

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Barbados Cherry

Post  Ronald kelly on Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:23 pm


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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  ROBOKU on Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:36 am

my elm and maple Very Happy

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Matija Triglav Tijek on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:15 am

Hello!

Really like a concept of this topic, and would like to see more topics like this one... . And my thinking about what terms... Style is a term I use when I'm talking about work of different authors. Everyone have a different way of banding branches or any other work. We can find patterns in styles on micro level-person and on macro level-country or continent. Till here trees can be in same "form". Term category is often used in sport, in combat sports they separate sportsmen in different categories by weight that game is equal for everyone. In bonsai we could use that when talking about size of bonsai or if it is professional or amateur. And so mush talked term, form. I actually almost never use it, because if we are talking about form we are giving bad description about the tree. We are somehow locked in the corner if we have to describe a tree whit one of "12" different samples. I rather use a term habitus (Wiki: In biology, the term is sometimes used to denote a phenetic similarity in external morphology or the characteristic mode of growth or occurrence of an organism) like we did on forest engineering university and like that describe a line of a tree.

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Walter Pall on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:49 am

Matija,

this is the clearest view of the subject that I have ever read.

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  pine queen on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:35 pm

Yuji Yoshimura said in 1961 that this was broom style and that was good enough for me. There was no mention of walking out and looking at the oak tree in my back yard, no mention of habitus, no illustrations of clump style trees with similar branch structure, just a very simple upright trunk with lots of branches.
Mr. Yoshimura, I respect you as a Japanese authority on bonsai and the etiquette where bonsai rules are concerned.
illustration from Miniature Trees and Landscapes for educational purpose only:

Q


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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  JimLewis on Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:26 pm

Mr. Yoshimura, I respect you as a Japanese authority on bonsai and the etiquette where bonsai rules are concerned.

Exactly! EXCEPT: You (I presume) aren't Japanese, or in Japan, so why must you be bound by Japanese "rules?"

(I realize I'm kinda arguing against my earlier comments here, but what the heck.)

Matija, I really like your analysis. cheers

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

Post  Pavel Slovák on Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:37 pm

Hi all.

I think that Bonsai is an art. In art there are different styles and different forms. For art is a necessary basic knowledge and the creative and production-originality. Styles and forms used only as an aid, basic instructions. It is necessary also for creative production. But it is always necessary to maintain the basic aesthetic principles.
I mean, artist - creator can assign a style to your tree (KENGAI) and then forms (long, short, dramatic, sleek), (as well as one can speak of habitus tree), another may not agree with that and that's good. It always depends on the perspective, a sense of man.

Pavel

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Re: Clean Sweep - Show Us Your Brooms

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