Windswept Larch

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Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:49 pm

Hello all,

Here is BEFORE & AFTER pictures of my Larch that I bought in September 09.
Image 5 is what was achieved after working with Mr Dan Barton for a couple of hours. Hope you guys like it too.

I'm not sure what pot would suite the tree most. A slab? or maybe a crescent?

I'd appreciate any help with the right pot.

Many thanks

Faisal










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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  luc tran on Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:53 pm

looks good. Just one question. What is the visual effect of the branches going the opposite direction? is it for balancing the composition?

Luc

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Jim Doiron on Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:28 pm

It does look like a good start. I think the shallow tray or slab would be a good option. I didn't do anything with the tree but I do think it should rotate a bit.


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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Harleyrider on Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:47 pm

Hi Faisal. There's one glaring problem, as far as I can see. If this is a windswept, then how come the bottom 1/3 of the trunk is growing against the wind? When it was a young sapling, the wind (which is obviously very strong, looking at the branches) would have blown it in the opposite direction. Planting the tree tilted more in the direction of the wind would help to negate this issue.

Sorry to be picky, mate Very Happy . Hope this doesn't mean I won't get any more of your wife's mouthwatering biryani?

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  SamC on Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:06 pm

Harleyrider -

Here's a possible explanation. On our coast, or in the mountains a tree may start growing into the prevailing winds, shielded from the winds by undergrowth and bushes, once the tree reaches above the height of this wind barrier the direction and character of growth can be radically different.

I realize this would be an exercise in relating beyond the tree itself into its surroundings, but such growth is plausible.

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Harleyrider on Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:11 pm

Agreed. But how have the bottom 2 branches been affected by the wind while the trunk hasn't?

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:38 am

Hi Luc,

Thank you for your comment. You're right about the left branches.
The top left branch is very short and at a steeper angle than the ones on the right side.
It's being pressed into the upper trunk which is logical and should be acceptable in the design.
The important thing is to make sure it is always kept short.

Hope you agree.

Regards,

Faisal

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:59 am

Hello Steve,

Good to hear from you. You're right about the trunk. It would be better if it were inclined slightly.
Or maybe I place a rock to the left of the trunk when it's re-potted. This will justify its upward growth,
as it will have been protected.
I can already see the effect of spending a lot of time with Tony Smile .
Of course you'll get a lot more Biryani when ever we meet next. Hopefully very soon.
I quite like your Terry Foster Oak. Looks like a long term project though.
You're lucky to be closer to some of the most talented artists.

Regds,

Faisal

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:05 am

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the virt. I've actually been looking for a slab for tis one. Might also rotate it a little when I re-pot it next.

Regds,

Faisal

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  wabashene on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:48 am

This subject of a windswept tree growing against the wind initially comes up often.

Perfectly plausible and very common as illustrated by the following diagram I did way back the last time it came up.



Wind effect is usually negligible at ground level and for a metre or 2 up so the tree would grow more or less naturally towards light etc.

Look at this extreme example in an Archie Miles pic and you couldn't get more windswept than this!

http://www.archiemiles.co.uk/Images/Hawthorn/am_Windswept%20hawthornNr.%20Settle%20N.Yorks.jpg

Good work on the tree Faisal

Thks

TimR

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Rob Kempinski on Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:36 pm

Harleyrider wrote:Agreed. But how have the bottom 2 branches been affected by the wind while the trunk hasn't?

Remember there is infinite variety in nature. Pretty much anything is possible. So be an artist and not an engineer.

(PS I am an engineer and I try not to let that stop me. ) tongue

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:34 pm

Thanks Tim & Rob,

The diagram and the picture explains all. Like Rob said, Nature follows no rules and still produces stunning trees.

Thank you for your help.

Regds,

Faisal

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Tony on Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:46 pm

Hi Faisal, Windswept is a very hard style to pull off successfully, Dan is a great exponent of this style... you are in good hands with him. Will be interesting when the new growth starts... you will need to wire that to suit you new design.

Tony

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:53 pm

Hi Tony,

Dan sure is an amazing artist. He spent quite some time studying the tree from all angles and then finally decided to go for this windswept style. It's always a pleasure working with him.
I'm glad you like it too and agree with the style.

Regards,

Faisal

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  bumblebee on Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:53 pm

wabashene wrote:This subject of a windswept tree growing against the wind initially comes up often.

Perfectly plausible and very common as illustrated by the following diagram I did way back the last time it came up.



Wind effect is usually negligible at ground level and for a metre or 2 up so the tree would grow more or less naturally towards light etc.

Look at this extreme example in an Archie Miles pic and you couldn't get more windswept than this!

http://www.archiemiles.co.uk/Images/Hawthorn/am_Windswept%20hawthornNr.%20Settle%20N.Yorks.jpg

Good work on the tree Faisal

Thks

TimR



Is that amazing tree in the picture for real? Not photoshopped, or whatever?

Libby

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Tom on Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:23 pm

Here's another illustration of Tim's point, though slightly less dramatic.
Even though this is an interesting tree (Hawthorn if I remember correctly), it would look rubbish if replicated in bonsai form (IMHO).


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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:34 pm

Hi Libby,
It's a real picture from Yorkshire, England.
You see some amazing examples in nature.

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Rick Moquin on Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:16 am

F. Waheedy wrote:Hi Libby,
It's a real picture from Yorkshire, England.
You see some amazing examples in nature.

That is why IMO for your tree to look convincing, you need to raise your branches 10-15 degrees from their current position without changing the panting angle on the trunk. Look at all the pics of windswept trees in nature and bonsai. All the branches are pointed up 10 degrees or do and not straight across.

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:35 am

Hi Rick,

Thank you for your comment. I know what you mean about the branches not pointing straight across. There little points make big difference to any bonsai. I'll make sure I change the angles lightly when I re pot the tree in a couple of months.

Many thanks,

Faisal

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Re: My attempt at securing a permit for collecting.

Post  Guest on Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:53 am

In my humble opinion, the only way to traiin in windswept, or weeping style, is to prune out anything growing in the right direction.If the windswept is moving from left to right, you prune out the branches that grow to the right. Wire the branches that grow to the left across to the right. Same for right to left and for north to south. I do hope i'm making sense as i've had a c0ouple of scottches tonight.
Hopefully, that way you'll get better movement throughout the branch structure and a more convincing image.

Guest
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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Rob Kempinski on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:38 pm

will baddeley wrote:In my humble opinion, the only way to traiin in windswept, or weeping style, is to prune out anything growing in the right direction.If the windswept is moving from left to right, you prune out the branches that grow to the right. Wire the branches that grow to the left across to the right. Same for right to left and for north to south. I do hope i'm making sense as i've had a c0ouple of scottches tonight.
Hopefully, that way you'll get better movement throughout the branch structure and a more convincing image.

Keep in mind there are many different styles of windswept trees.

There are trees continually beset by wind, trees affected by a severe wind and then return to less windy conditions and trees beset by a sudden wind as in a hurricane. Each of these can make an interesting design.

This image of tree I used in my book as an example of a windswept tree - a tree beset by a sudden hurricane force wind bouncing off the ground. I witnessed such wind during Hurricane Wilma a few years ago and hence I called this one - "Styled By Wilma." It's a Florida Elm, a variety of the American Elm.



Imagine some other ideas - how about a weeping willow in a strong wind. The branches would weep and then the tails would move horizontally. That would be cool.

The big disadvantage to windswept trees is they require continual wire and rewire.

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  F. Waheedy on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:44 pm

I was just trying to see how the tree will look in a slab. I've also changed the angle a little.



Last edited by F. Waheedy on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Tony on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:50 pm

Is that amazing tree in the picture for real? Not photoshopped, or whatever?

Libby

Libby I can take you to the very tree... should you come and visit me Cool

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Guest on Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:50 pm

A very convincing image Rob. Could also be a tree at the top of a valley, with a constant updraught

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Re: Windswept Larch

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:11 pm

I believe bonsai groomed to match either of the full-sized trees COULD be developed. The problem with believability would not lie with the tree, but with the pot or rock, proportion to the setting and placement in your display (yard?) in order to make it believable.

Just to create a windswept tree and not arranging and displaying it to sell the design would be a mistake, but then again, as long as you are developing the tree, planting it in a believable setting might physically get in the way of the development. I know that sounds wierd, but if it is planted next to a rock or in an entire landscape, the amount of force that might be needed to bend and twist branches into shape might pull the tree out of its setting or might make it difficult to get your fingers into the places where the work is needed.

(FYI: I figure I'm not only preaching to the choir on this one, but several of the choir masters as well, but I believe there might be some potential choir members out there who might benefit from the advice!)

study study study study study
study study study study study
study study study study study

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Re: Windswept Larch

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