A Few Summer Bonsai

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A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  thomasj on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:24 pm


A few JBP that's ready for decandeling.




A Chinese Elm I've had for many many years

One of my procumbens that looks good both front and back. :-)
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  AlainK on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:34 pm

Hi Tom,

thomasj wrote:

One of my procumbens that looks good both front and back. :-)

I like it a lot! Cool
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  bilbo on Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:59 pm

VERY NICE TREES, especially those pines.

But I confess to being confused.
Since I'm new to bonsai, I tend to ask a lot of questions on some topics and one of the topics is my own procumbens.

Several different independent mentors have told me with great confidence, that procumbens will not graduate to the mature growth, but always stay with the juvenile foliage.
This topic has come up frequently with various mentors and myself me because I have expressed concern at my perceived need to perform some growing tip pinches (if for no other reason than to keep the foliage juvenile).
And yet, without exception, each one has relied "oh, you don't have to worry about that with a procumbens, they'll always stay juvenile."

And then here you are posting pics of a Juniperus, clearly graduated to mature growth (almost 100%) and you call it a "procumbens."

So, are you certain this is a procumbens?
Is there zero chance it could be some other Juniperus?

I can see legitimate differences of opinion with tools, or technique, but actual tree taxonomy should, I would think, be fairly standard.

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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  thomasj on Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:43 am

I hate to say this but whoever gave you that info was wrong as procumbens for sure will give you mature growth as seen in my previous pic and this one. Constant pinching will allow this to happen. I've been working with procumbens since 2002 and every one of them has the scale or what you would call mature foliage. Some people say never to pinch junipers and that's probably because they were doing it wrong and weakened the branch or the tree too much. My procumbens speak for themselves pretty much. It will take a few years but it will turn to mature needles, and sometime for whatever reason will revert back to juvenile foliage, but I think this might be from too much fertilizing. Cool
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  bilbo on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:25 pm

I apologize if this distracts the post with your terrific trees, but I'm very curious on your last comments.

"Some people say never to pinch junipers and that's probably because they were doing it wrong and weakened the branch or the tree too much"
What is the correct way to pinch Juniperus?
Do you know of any resources or videos?

Is there a way to prevent/delay the foliage from advancing to "scale" (mature)?
Personally, I prefer the juvenile foliage and had the impression that by keeping the tips pinched, I could increase ramification and retain juvenile foliage.
At our club's Dallas convention last April, there was a beautiful 30 year old procumbens but had 100% juvenile foliage.



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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  thomasj on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:38 pm

Hi there, I'm from Wylie and was a former member of the Dallas club many years ago. In fact I was the one who made those white curtains behind the show trees. As to your question about the juvenile foliage, the only thing that might work is rather than pinching you might try cutting the tips deep inside like many people say todo rather than pinching. I have seen some older procumbens that went to mature foliage even though no one worked on them. Try the scissor cutting method and see what happens. :-)
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  AlainK on Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:32 pm

Very nice tree.

There is probably still some work to do on it, but it already looks good Wink
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  kevin stoeveken on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:31 pm

junipers should really never be constantly pinched back...
doing so gives them the message that they might as well just give up and die
(putting it in simple terms)

rather they should be allowed a vigorous growth period before cutting/pinching back...

so even a "finished" tree will be allowed to look like a punk for a while before being reigned back into conforming with the masses. Twisted Evil

and juvenile delinquent foliage is usually produced as a reaction to stress.

nice looking trees !

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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  thomasj on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:51 pm

junipers should really never be constantly pinched back... doing so gives them the message that they might as well just give up and die wrote:

I have to disagree with this. The last pic I provided is from a juniper I bought in 1998 and still have today. MY junipers have never looked stressed out or in poor health as to want to just give up and die. Once the new mature foliage comes in pinching is not required anymore except for the occasional pinch here and there to keep the shape .  Laughing
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  kevin stoeveken on Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:38 pm

they dont get that message overnite... or even perhaps in a decade... but eventually they do.
that is supported by newer research and science.

matter of fact, much of the new thinking is worthy of consideration. Wink

didnt wanna hi-jack your thread, so all i am saying is that for anyone new, question what you have been told.


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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  my nellie on Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:19 pm

kevin stoeveken wrote:... ...that is supported by newer research and science... ...
In fact there is much of misinformation regarding constantly pinching junipers... outdated techniques... confusing terminology.
Brian v. Fleet, Michael Haegedorn, Ryan Neil, Walter Pall, Boon Manakitivipart, Bjorn Bjorholm, etc, etc, are some of the renowned artists/artisans who do not pinch junipers any more!
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  Precarious on Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:06 am

Add Peter Tea to that list, his explanation was that new growth is...well...the newest..., most efficient and productive. Repetitive pinching costs a plant a lot of energy. Apparently it is healthier to snip older, small side branches and let back budding occur, and hold on to that precious new growth at the tips.
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  bilbo on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:38 pm

I'm VERY SORRY for what happened to your thread with your great trees.

I could have, and should have started a different thread and invited your insights there on that topic.

I'll try to find time tomorrow to do that as I do find these are all great comments from knowledgeable people, and it is interesting regarding Juniperus, but this thread should be dedicated to you great trees.

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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  LanceMac10 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:43 am

Anybody care to present THEIR Junipers? You know, to compare/contrast the two different approaches.
It would seem to me that thomasj has a pretty decent grasp on how to care for his trees.




Anyone?Rolling Eyes
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:35 pm

Beautiful trees !

Hmm, the ugly rears it head -------

[1] The problem of Experienced growing versus the Japanese trained masters.

[2] This how we deal with it in Fine Art
- when you have gone away for 3 to 5 years [ or more or less ] and cleared your head, done enough to
show that you are not a clone, folk may begin to take you seriously.
This might take longer with growing, as opposed to sketches and painted efforts.

The trees are beautiful, and if there is a flaw in the technique, then you depend on Honesty, and Truth.

I am seeing a lot of this as the Internet takes over more and more.

Value experience and visual evidence and not talk.
Action always speaks louder than words.
Laters.
Khaimraj

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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:36 pm

Oh Lance,

my junipers [ 3 ] suck.
Sorry, no images to present.
Until
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  LanceMac10 on Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:56 pm

I only have two. Here is an image from "as purchased" followed by a more recent image.










be well, Khaimraj !!! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: A Few Summer Bonsai

Post  kevin stoeveken on Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:43 pm

good job on recovery lance !!!!

planning some big work on one of mine... will try to remember to get pics on the blog...

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