Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

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Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  bilbo on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:09 pm

So, I just love the Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') for bonsai.

But became VERY frustrated in my efforts to acquire any.
I bought 2 from a seller on Amazon but they turned out to be 'glauca pendula' (weeping) and that really pissed me off.

So, I happened across 5 of them at my favorite nursery but they're all over 5 feet tall.
I spotted one with decent branching and a decent bend at the root line and bought it.
I knew I could always just lop the top off it but thought I see if I could layer it.
I waited for it to start blooming and this started within the last 1.5 weeks.
Yesterday was rainy so I decided it was time.

Here is a before picture


And an after picture
While it may look like a rather tall layer, I wanted to ensure there were plenty of needles to supply the rooting area.
Plus, it is VERY flexible from that point up and I fully intend to bend the holy crap out when the rooting is finished.
(I have a plan to assist me in bending it before I actually cut the layer off but more on that if/when the time comes)


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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  bilbo on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:39 pm

Here you see the two deep cuts, about an inch apart:


Here you clearly see the outer bark layers in profile


Here the bark layers fully removed.
Yes, if you look very carefully, you can also note even the Cedrus have needle rays reaching from the sapwood through the outer bark layers.


Rooting hormone applied


Sphagnum and wrapping applied.
2 mil poly wrapped three times and secured with wire ties with extra in the middle to increase contact pressure between the sphagnum and the layer area.

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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  augustine on Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:52 pm

Punch holes in the bottom so water will drain. And you'll probably have to water, just use a syringe (the kind used to clean wax out of ears works well and is readily/cheaply available). just punch a hole in top and insert the syringe.

I imagine it will take at least 2 years if it will even grow roots. Maybe others have experience layering Cedrus. Good luck.

Also there is a piece on Cedars for bonsai in the Articles section of EvergreengardenWorks.com.

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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  bilbo on Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:56 am

Thanks for the Luck, My feeling is, I may need it.

I've seen some of those videos of guys poking a bunch of holes in their layers and I'm just thinking, "Why?".

I'm not one who wants water to drain, or the consequential adding back of water.
I seal my layers so tight moisture can't leak, or is very very slow to if it does.
I prefer to create a very humid greenhouse environment and have had very good luck with the trees I've done.
That said, I've not done JBP or BAC so we'll see what happens.
I may ultimately need to add/remove water but for now I think I'll stand pat.

I've left layers like this sealed for 3 months with successful roots and no need to add or remove water.

I've also seen some posts where there are 2nd hand "reports" from observers where 2 years is estimated for BAC but until I see it, based on other real experience, I'm skeptical of that time frame.
We'll see what happens.

I did read some reports in the UC Davis database of remarkably good results with cuttings so I'm not sure if I can buy into air layers being that much harder or slower.
Cuttings are far more stressful on the new piece than layers are on the new piece but then maybe that's the answer.


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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  bilbo on Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:13 am

With the side scenario in play regarding the prospect of cuttings working as good or better than layers for BAC, you may have noticed from my pictures that I had to clear an area on the main trunk to make room for the air layer.

I removed 7 branches ranging in size from 6 inches to 3 inches.

I kept them in water overnight and today I planted them as follows:
Here is the longest branch I had for a cutting.


This is probably the shortest cutting.


As you can see, I split the stem down the middle and applied rooting hormone.
I then lodged a tray stone in the crack to keep it open.

Then I carefully planted them in quart size pots with VERY moist soil.
Then I covered them with quart size ziplock baggies and placed them in 6" water trays.
The ziplocks have a surprisingly tight seal around the rim of these pots.
So much so that as I was pulling them down, air was squeezed through the dirt and bubbled out into the water trays.
But I added rubber bands for good measure.


We'll see what happens as this is not normally how I would do cuttings but I saw somebody else doiong this and claimed good results.
So, I thought I'd experiment with them.
Even if they all die, it still seems more entertaining/educational than just tossing them in the garbage yesterday.

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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:48 pm

mark fields came to milwaukee to do a demo on these and he gave me a cutting that, at his suggestion, i simply dipped in rooting hormone and stuck it some pumice...

this was last year and it worked beautifully, as he said it would.

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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  bilbo on Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:59 pm

kevin stoeveken wrote:mark fields came to milwaukee to do a demo on these and he gave me a cutting that, at his suggestion,  i simply dipped in rooting hormone and stuck it some pumice...

this was last year and it worked beautifully, as he said it would.

Interesting!
I wonder if I may inquire of some details?

How big was the cutting?
How long did it take to root?
Do you remember what the hormone was and if possible it's percentage?
In what medium did you root it?
What were the lighting conditions?
What time of year when you started it?
Is it still alive?

Still confusing to me why cuttings should or would be faster/more successful than layering but more info may help to solve the puzzle.

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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:01 pm

some of your questions were answered in my post...

it was probably a 4" long cutting, which is now 6-7" tall
common garden store rooting powder
dont know how long it took to root...
he was here last spring and i stuck it and set it aside
(watched kettle not boiling and all that)
part shade all year (understory)
came out of winter storage and is now outside ready to get into a grow pot...

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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  bilbo on Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:53 pm

oh, shoot, pumice, sorry... Embarassed

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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  kevin stoeveken on Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:41 pm

no sweat...

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Blue Atlas

Post  Michael Cooper on Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:29 am

I was very lucky Kaizen had five starter BAC just after Christmas and my sons had give me a voucher of theirs as a present so after looking around and seeing how scarce they are I bought two


Which was just as well the other three went in and hour or so.
In my researc on web I came across the following site of George Omi's which was a help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZZya4fByrE&t=41s
and there is another one byKuromatsu which is ok
http://kuromatsubonsai.com/evergreen-bonsai/cedar-bonsai/
I have wired both mine as Geo Omi did  and they are showing new buds now



When you look at Geo O's trees I can see that one could easily get obsessed with BACs,good liuck.
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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  bilbo on Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:07 pm

Very nice!
Looks like you're on your way to a pair of nice BAC bonsai.

Yes, it does seem to be difficult to come by good BAC bonsai material.
Maybe I'll be able to remedy that situation in time.
Wink

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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

Post  Marty Weiser on Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:04 am


Here is an article on cedars from Brent Walston at Evergreengardenworks in northern California. http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/cedars.htm. He also lists some small to slightly larger sized cedars for sale.

Jim Gremel at Deer Meadow Bonsai - http://www.jimgremel.com/bonsaihomepage.html - has some nice big cedars for sale.

I tend to buy the some of the landscape trees when they go on sale at the end of the season and convert them. I will see about posting a couple of pictures of trees that are in early development and some comments tomorrow.


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Re: Blue Atlas Cedar (Cedrus atlantica 'glauca') Progression

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