hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

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hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  Mario Stefano on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:48 pm

Hawthorne, first wired, so far only sliced ..

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Thanks for your interest!

Mario Stefano
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hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:25 pm

Hi Mario. Very good piece of Hawthorn. I like the movement of the trunk and the way it meets the soil. I think the top is a bit heavy. Maybe a little carving to thin the top where the deadwood is. I hope you understand when I say branch habit? Branches grow in a certain way, otherwise there would be a kind of birdsnest of branches. Some of your branches seem to be wired in an unnatural way. I would shorten, wire, grow, shorten, wire, grow to build structure.

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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  Mario Stefano on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:06 pm

will baddeley wrote:Hi Mario. Very good piece of Hawthorn. I like the movement of the trunk and the way it meets the soil. I think the top is a bit heavy. Maybe a little carving to thin the top where the deadwood is. I hope you understand when I say branch habit? Branches grow in a certain way, otherwise there would be a kind of birdsnest of branches. Some of your branches seem to be wired in an unnatural way. I would shorten, wire, grow, shorten, wire, grow to build structure.


I understand you completely, and everything you said is completely true. Thank you for written all this in English, because for me is inconvenient.All the branches are too thick and curved. When vegetation begins, I shortened all the branches at the top 2/3.Tada'll get enough space for the carving. And as you said, with the cutting and wireing, I get what I want.

Mario Stefano
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Slant Style

Post  gman on Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:45 pm

Hi Mario,
I like the tree. The Dead top(s) reminds me of some of the trees that I have seen recently after a huge wind storm went through here a week ago.
Have you considered a slant style where you could angle the tree more to the left and then expose the roots/nebari (on the right) more to evoke a feeling that the tree sometimes experiences strong winds (this could/would align itself with the dead tops).
Just a thought I’d throw at you.
Cheers Graham

gman
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  bobby little on Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:11 am

I would shorten, wire, grow, shorten, wire, grow to build structure.

I think that is the wisest bit of advice I've seen on here, speaking as a novice. You've just cleared up the biggest bit of confusion I've had since I started this pursuit.

bobby little
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:01 am

bobby little wrote:
I would shorten, wire, grow, shorten, wire, grow to build structure.

I think that is the wisest bit of advice I've seen on here, speaking as a novice. You've just cleared up the biggest bit of confusion I've had since I started this pursuit.
After severalrepeats of thismethod,you can forget the wire and just use directional pruning.

Guest
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  Mario Stefano on Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:51 am

Hi Graham
The tree, with all sides have a great nebari, when he could angle the tree, hid the nebari that hawthorn is difficult to find. Maybe some other hawthorn. Top laminate and more will darken Deadwood, and everything will look better. This is just the first serious grip on the tree, and the year will make it all better. Thanks for the proposal !

Mario Stefano
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  Rui Marques on Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:16 am

Hi Mario,

Please, post some developments of this tree for us.

Best regards.

Rui Marques
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  marcus watts on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:51 pm

In addition to the excelent advice already given more thought needs to be given to making the lower branches thicker in diameter than the upper ones. In the last picture the top ones are already getting bigger due to the top vigour of the tree. The lower branches need much more free growth while the upper ones are kept short, so they thicken up more at the bottom and progressively get thinner as they go up the tree.

Many trunk chopped trees end up with a lot of thin twigs all over for branches, or worse still fatter branches at the top and thin twigs lower down. It is much easier to correct this now while the tree has many years of development ahead and it is essential with a deciduous tree to create a natural image.

cheers Marcus

marcus watts
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  bucknbonsai on Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:00 pm

Marcus I understand your point and have always wondered though, If you keep the tops trimmed to keep them from fattening more than the lower branches, and you let the lower branches grow wild to thicken, then you run into a problem of the top being far more ramified than the bottom. How does everyone combat this problem? My thinking is to have sacrifice branches growing off of the lower limbs yet in order to keep lower branches thicker than the top branches in the long haul you would have to repeatedly grow these sacrifice shoots. In all the posts here and viewing numerous collections I dont see this process being done regularly.

bucknbonsai
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  RKatzin on Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:15 pm

Great Hawthorn Mario! Very excited to see you develop it. Very much C. momogyna for the picking in this vacinity, too.
Buck, the trunk and lower branches are in most cases the permanent part of the structure of the tree, while the tops are much more transient and may go through several evolutions while establishing the base of the tree. When the upper part becomes too dense like you say, I cut back behind the whole mess and start a new mess. You may not notice because the cut usually blends right in.

RKatzin
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

Post  adam1234 on Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:47 pm

Hi,
This is an excellent thread. I have learnt alot more today than in the last 2 years. Thanks.

adam1234
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Re Hawthorn

Post  will baddeley on Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:04 am

bucknbonsai wrote:Marcus I understand your point and have always wondered though, If you keep the tops trimmed to keep them from fattening more than the lower branches, and you let the lower branches grow wild to thicken, then you run into a problem of the top being far more ramified than the bottom. How does everyone combat this problem? My thinking is to have sacrifice branches growing off of the lower limbs yet in order to keep lower branches thicker than the top branches in the long haul you would have to repeatedly grow these sacrifice shoots. In all the posts here and viewing numerous collections I dont see this process being done regularly.

Heres a link to some sacrifice shoots at the end of the thread. http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t3408p45-big-ol-layer

will baddeley
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Re: hawthorn-crataegus monogyna 2008-2009

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