Is the IBC dying ?

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  AlainK on Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:47 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote: (...) we all have favourite trees and they have been seen publicly, so why show again and again (...)

Good question, one that I often ask myself...

µExcept when I break a branch and start a new design, so a new tree Wink
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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  kevin stoeveken on Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:00 pm

vance - i have only been around here for about 5-6 years and i have had my share of scoldings (mainly early on and mainly from jim - r.i.p.) but to be honest, i probably deserved it in the context of this forum... (all the more reason i am still surprised that i am now a moderator... maybe inviting the fox into the hen house is a clever plan to tame the fox ? Twisted Evil )

now having said that, and in the relatively short time i have been around this forum, i have really never seen the moderators step in unnecessarily... and believe me, i have followed all (and participated in some of) the contentious arguments since i have been here and the moderators only stepped in when things got UGLY... but that is only how i recall perceiving it, so i could be mistaken.

regardless... the wild west needed a sheriff, aka a keeper of the peace, to maintain civilty... he didnt mind everyone drinking and carousing and a-carryin' on and such, but when 6-shooters got pulled and folks took to fightin and bustin up miss kittys joint, well, it was time to step in and rightfully so.

sorry vance, but like you, i just calls 'em like i sees 'em... so i prefer to think of the moderators as peace keepers, more so than sheriffs...

David Brunner wrote:Hello again Vance!  
As to your cake and rain I will also refrain from comment as I know some which might find such a real delight.  To each their own!

um... er... do you know them personally, dave ? Razz Laughing Razz

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  AlainK on Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:59 pm

kevin stoeveken wrote:v(...) (all the more reason i am still surprised that i am now a moderator... maybe inviting the fox into the hen house is a clever plan to tame the fox ? Twisted Evil )
(...)

Hu hu... Would you really be surprised if I told you the same thing happened to me years ago on a totally different kind of forum? Laughing
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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  kevin stoeveken on Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:14 pm

nope... not at all surprised. Wink

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  M. Frary on Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:05 am

This thread should be locked down now before it gets out of hand!
It's already 3 pages long and the most responded to thread in the last month here.
What does that tell you?

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Carrying on...

Post  Bolero on Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:46 pm



Picked this up on Ebay, Cloisone Tray Bonsai



My Maple Grove Grouping in garage for winter




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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  Vance Wood on Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:58 pm

M. Frary wrote:   This thread should be locked down now before it gets out of hand!
It's already 3 pages long and the most responded to thread in the last month here.
What does that tell you?

It tells me that people are not willing to post new material, and that's why the perception that the site is dying.
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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  kevin stoeveken on Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:32 pm

at a quick glance it looks to me like quite a few new posts actually...

i am guilty myself of not posting material, but at this point i am still sorting through a years worth of pictures...
but when i am done, i will actually have something worth discussing... i think Wink

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  John Quinn on Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:02 pm

Having just read through the 'environmental gestapo' thread referenced above I agree that with more time it would have self moderated and just faded away on its own. As a moderator with a typically laissez faire approach I know for a fact that most, if not all, interventions occur after consultation with the other mods so that one moderator's biases will not cloud judgement. Interventions are thankfully rare, and the thread referenced is older than five years old. As someone with a full time career and other interests, which also describes many of the other moderators over recent years, I find it a luxury to find the time to scan through posts trying to ensure basic civility, let alone posting new material. Having just disembarked from a cruise ship, during which time I was unable to log in to IBC for some reason, I think a useful analogy might be to compare different forums to different cruise lines; some are known for raucous abandonment while others are more understated. Both deliver essentially similar experiences and it is simply up to the individual to find the right one that suits his or her temperament. Remember, however, that forums do evolve as faces come and go for whatever reasons, so maintaining an outdated preconception or grudge over perceived shortcomings may be counterproductive.
Peace, and Happy New Year. Cool

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  Vance Wood on Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:20 pm

John Quinn wrote:Having just read through the 'environmental gestapo' thread referenced above I agree that with more time it would have self moderated and just faded away on its own. As a moderator with a typically laissez faire approach I know for a fact that most, if not all, interventions occur after consultation with the other mods so that one moderator's biases will not cloud judgement. Interventions are thankfully rare, and the thread referenced is older than five years old. As someone with a full time career and other interests, which also describes many of the other moderators over recent years, I find it a luxury to find the time to scan through posts trying to ensure basic civility, let alone posting new material. Having just disembarked from a cruise ship, during which time I was unable to log in to IBC for some reason, I think a useful analogy might be to compare different forums to different cruise lines; some are known for raucous abandonment while others are more understated. Both deliver essentially similar experiences and it is simply up to the individual to find the right one that suits his or her temperament. Remember, however, that forums do evolve as faces come and go for whatever reasons, so maintaining an outdated preconception or grudge over perceived shortcomings may be counterproductive.
Peace, and Happy New Year. Cool

Just so we understand each other.  I harbor no grudge for any reason, just disappointment when as  I remember I was trying to make a point about the Environmental Gestapo.  This was my view point and I felt there were those who were going to change collecting of native trees for every reason that they can justify in their own minds being that know so much better than the rest of us.  Someone I now choose not to mention took offense at the terminology I chose to use.  

In the end the Moderator decided my use of the word Gestapo was out of line.  It is and was this kind of official thinking that have inserted the so called Moderator Class into trying to engineer thinking in so much as, even though no law of civility has been violated, or rule broken, but; some sort of PC Crapola Grande will not be allowed to be questioned.  That sir drives free expression off the site and ensures that the same stogie liberal type of thinking alone will be tolerated.  The message sent:  No dissension will be allowed. If that is the way it should be then it should be pointed. My I also point out. Most of the posts over the last week have been by me.


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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  John Quinn on Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:29 pm

Thanks for the reply. In reading it I did not get the impression that it centered around the use of that term at least as far as the moderator was concerned, more on general bickering. The now unidentified "guest" seemed more focused on the terminology.

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  Vance Wood on Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:33 pm

John Quinn wrote:Thanks for the reply. In reading it I did not get the impression that it centered around the use of that term at least as far as the moderator was concerned, more on general bickering. The now unidentified "guest" seemed more focused on the terminology.

The general bickering was over the use of that term. The moderator decided that the so called perception of friendliness and unity was more important than the point that was being made. At this point in time my posts become less and less, and the accusations of being a trouble maker increased.
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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  leatherback on Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:46 am

Would it be a good idea to not restart the discussion? Just live in the now, rather than in smething that happened years ago?

How about a good "Happy new year" with lot of trees, smiles and growth?

rendeer santa sunny
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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  jun on Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:09 pm

kevin stoeveken wrote:jun... you and your work are always welcome back here...

things do not always remain as they once were Wink


Kevin,

You are a moderator now? Didn't notice that 'til now. Congratulations!

As a moderator, maybe you can ask the remaining people of the forum if they have any idea on how to make site active again like before. (I hope it is not yet too late for that).
There was a discussion like this before but it seems it didn't solve the problem at hand during that time despite Fiona's effort to change drastically the format of the forum. My opinion on this is that the moderators tried to addressed the problem then with a wrong solution (sorry, just my opinion, I might be wrong, despite my prediction that the forum will have freefall decline if the problems were not addressed properly ). The problem before was the continuous loss of valuable members at an alarming rate and the solutions made that time was to change the format of the forum and adding new features like the sections of "members trees" "bonsai contemplations", etc to entice more members from posting and making the forum more organized.
The problem before was not the physical form of the forum, The form of the forum before is perfect (IMHO) as it was, I think the problem that was not addressed was more on the strategic approach on how to keep the members from leaving the forum, and not organizing the seemingly chaotic format. I think I made a suggestion on this before a few years back but my recommendations fell on deaf ears.
Maybe members here have some opinions on how to improve the site "dying" status. Make it some sort of brain storming type of discussions, where ideas and counter ideas can be argued with civility and without much emotions involved, for members and moderators alike. This I think would be a better discussion that can come up with some sort of solution for this post of Khaimraj.

regards,
jun Very Happy

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:16 pm

Jun [ L.L.B ]

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !!

You know how the Art Forums survived --------------------------- everyone made friends, and discussed
life, work and so on.

Much as we do down here when a few of us get together over Bonsai / Tea and Beer or Wine and Biscotti Laughing

So we just talk and share ideas.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  jun on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:24 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Jun [ L.L.B ]

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year !!

You know how the Art Forums survived --------------------------- everyone made friends, and discussed
life, work and so on.

Much as we do down here when a few of us get together over Bonsai / Tea and Beer or Wine and Biscotti Laughing

So we just talk and share ideas.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj


that is partially true LLB. (happy new year).

but if we search the historical posts here in IBC where the forum reaches its peak and then the months and year where the decline happened, there was a clear pattern.
The growth of IBC happened and were sustained in a few years when the "big guys" of the bonsai community were very active and communicating with the general public, even helping them out with ideas or just having a simple chitchat on something or off topic discussions. Some members even seemed to enjoy having an argument with some of them, maybe it gave them pride (that is a masculine egoist human nature). Most of these bonsai masters/well-knowned artists were mostly gentle and love to share ideas unselfishly, they don't mind having debates as long as they are appreciated. And, to tell you the truth this is one of the reasons why I joined actively IBC then, there was a "wow" moment when the likes of Robert Steven, Walter Pall, Will Badeley, and many more was here who help me in my bonsai path and improved my techniques,,,they will even spend precious time just to provide you with virtuals and solutions. It kinda boast the moral of ordinary hobbyist to engage in the art much further and that's were they become addicted to IBC. Sooner or later they also become precious integral part of the forum that can give advice and techniques to newbies in the forum, and the cycle continues.
But, somewhere along the way one by one these great artists lost interest in the forum. My belief is that way back then too many discussions were involved and were "censored". I remember a time when I even received several PM's from a moderator and reply on my posts telling me that I am "overposting" even telling me that my average post was like 3 topics per day and my replied to post goes dozens time a day. I don't know if I am the only one who were reprimanded from "over posting" in the forum during that time. This I tell because I experienced it personally.
My analysis is that there is a symbiotic relationship between the type of members we used to have here. The Masters received a sense of fulfillment helping those who needs bonsai help, and the mid level hobbyists finds joy interacting with the masters and experts and the newbies and lurkers felt that there was something going on in the forum and started to join-in. Again the cycle was cut somewhere.  
If we look at the other forums like Bnut, who survived despite being chaotic, it is that form of discussions that keep them going, that what fuels them over there to thrive. As for IBC before that's not what fuels this forum, it was the active and civilized co-existence of the diverse members.
As for the solution here in IBC, It is up to you guys especially the moderators to formulate solutions to this decline. The key word I think is a "symbiosis"- a close and long term relationship between species. When the needs for one another in the forum died out, maybe for too much ego being hurt, or over censorship or for what ever reason, the needs to be involved will be lost, then people will leave.

regards,
jun Very Happy
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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:10 pm

this may sound over simplistic, but i reckon the "rock stars" just got bored with repeating themselves... over and over and over and over...

i say that because i dont believe they simply migrated to the wild west forums...
they simply began participating far less in forums in general, eventually tapering off entirely.

granted, the actions of the moderators may have offended some free speech sensibilities, but not everyones...

perhaps when walter pall invents a new style of bonsai, he will have something new to share and gleefully "discuss" Wink

jun... i myself would have a hard time chastising someone for overposting... especially quality work that we can learn from.
(but like john said, moderator actions are generally a consensus)
but perhaps you can lead the way back to the IBC by setting the rock star precedent...

BE THE LIGHTNING ROD THAT DRAWS THE STARS !!!
(or something like that geek )

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:23 pm

by the way Jun, are you on instagram ?

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  AlainK on Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:37 pm

kevin stoeveken wrote:by the way Jun, are you on instagram ?

Good question: a good picture is worth a thousand words.

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  kevin stoeveken on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:57 pm

are you on instagram alain ?

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  Leo Schordje on Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:52 pm

kevin stoeveken wrote:are you on instagram alain ?

I found myself that what little time I take for processing and posting photos, if I put them on Instagram, it take away from the time I'd put into a post on IBC, AAC or other forums and blogs.

Time and the whether or not I have a good photo are the two things that limit my posting. I plan on posting here more, as time and having a good photo permits. Now that I discovered the ''cloud'', photos taken by my phone camera are now available to my laptop minutes later, without having to ''cable'' or send an email between my phone and laptop. The new in the last year or so photo uploader confused me for a bit too. but I think I got it.

American Persimmon seedlings, about 3 growing seasons old - please ignore the fact the house desperately needs a paint job.

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  AlainK on Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:07 am

kevin stoeveken wrote:are you on instagram alain ?

No, I keep track of the progress (?) of my trees on a personal website.
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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  kevin stoeveken on Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:39 pm

i dont believe anyone keeps progress of their trees via instagram...

that is simply a quick and easy way to share a photograph...
not at all good for progressions, explanations or dissertations...

instagram is simply a photo and a caption visible by other participants.

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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  AlainK on Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:34 pm

kevin stoeveken wrote:i dont believe anyone keeps progress of their trees via instagram...

that is simply a quick and easy way to share a photograph...
not at all good for progressions, explanations or dissertations...

instagram is simply a photo and a caption visible by other participants.

I understand but I'd rather pay sthg like $25 a year to be totally free Cool

http://krizic.eu/bonsai/photos/
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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

Post  AlainK on Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:51 pm

Bolero wrote:
One of my other Hobbies...22LR Handguns, Top is a Ruger 22/45 Lite, Bottom is a Browning Buck Mark Lite URX


Hi,

Aren't there any other forums for gun maniacs?

OK, you've got a big one, probably think that no other has such a big one.

Although you're a potential murderer, I don't think that the moderators should suppress your post: it's totally off topic, a trick often used by right/left wing activists.

I don't give a shit about your WASP culture display, but by posting that, you are showing everyone that you are a paranoid, dangerous trigger-happy American (Amerikan, USonian - although to me "USonians" are friendly people, but someone displaying a deadly weapon are not).

That's probably what you wanted to claim, but I much prefer to talk bonsai, and when I get off the tracks, I much prefer to show what makes me welcome strangers.

A different culture.

I pity you...



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Re: Is the IBC dying ?

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