A couple of Nishiki

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A couple of Nishiki

Post  MichaelS on Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:15 am

These are 2 nishiki pines I've been growing. The first one I grafted about 15 years ago.
As you can see, it's nice enough but very conventional. Having invested the time means I will probably persevere with it but no surprises for the future.




This one was a layer done about 10 years ago. Much slower growing on it's own roots however, I'm much more excited about this one as I planned to let the tree ''lead the way'' a bit more. I was told I should remove the smaller trunks etc. But I thought nah. This one will be allowed to evolve into a more natural and free form. I'm kind of glad I did. It's definitely more interesting imagining how this one may look in a decade or 2.


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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  beer city snake on Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:44 pm

michael - what is going on with the plastic on the top one ?
is the trunk wrapped to induce swelling below (with just a stray flap of plastic sticking up) ?

and that second one is killer... a bit thick up the middle, but whaddya gonna do ?
good move not taking the removal advice...

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  Leo Schordje on Wed Feb 03, 2016 5:01 pm

Nice

What cultivar of Nishiki JBP was your source of scions?

Both trees seem to be 4 wing of cork on a trunk type. Kyokko and kyokko yatsubusa do this, but so do a few others.

Its nice to see some cork barks old enough to have cork bark.

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  fredtruck on Wed Feb 03, 2016 6:36 pm

Very nice trees.

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  MichaelS on Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:09 am

Kev, even though I grafted way down on top of the roots, as it grew it streched up a bit and exposed some of the black pine stock so I have grafted another nishiki bud there to add some more bark. When it's done its job it will be cut off. That's the plan anyway...

Leo, I had three clones of nishiki. 2 where unnamed (as usual) and the other was Kyokko. This scion did not come from the named Kyokko but they look identical to me. The layer came from the same tree as well.
I wish we could get hold of more cultivars in this country.

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  beer city snake on Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:03 pm

ahhh... i see.
thanks

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  Leo Schordje on Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:53 pm

Yes, I have a no name that has 3 wing cork, which means maybe it is 'Yamaki' but it is impossible to know for sure. Sometimes cork bark JBP do develop from seed, from a cork bark JBP parent. In which case it would have no name. Some of them are quite good. I have had some success with seedlings from cork bark JBP. I've averaged about 50% showing some bark cork at 5 years or less. Time will tell if some more will show cork bark before they reach 10 years. Some may turn out to be ordinary JBP.

There are only 2 sources I know of that have some available every year. There are many who have cork barks available occasionally or infrequently. The commercial landscape nurseries like Isle & Stanley and Sons will have them often, but their grafts are way to high to be useful for bonsai. Don't bother if you want the trees for bonsai, they are only good as landscape plants or as scion wood donors.

There are two sources that have cork bark pines grafted low enough for bonsai and have some every year. Between these two there are at least 12 varieties available. Both have their grafts right down into the root zone of the understock.

Evergreen Gardenworks - Brent Walston. http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/index.htm

and

Wabi Sabi Bonsai and Niwaki - partners in Dragonfly Farms - David Dewire is their grafter, and he creates excellent low into the root zone grafts. This week he has 6 different varieties of cork bark JBP in stock and a good assortment of very low grafted JWP cultivars. Well worth checking out.
https://dragonflyfarmsnursery.com/plants-for-sale

Check both of them out.

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  MichaelS on Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:33 am

Thanks Leo but importation of any pine material is banned here.

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  redmoon on Wed Mar 16, 2016 5:00 pm

MichaelS, I see you’re a grafter. It’s been a few years since we’ve done any but there are several nishikis in need of going over with foliage from other varieties in 10 months time. Finally our very slow growing Kotobuki has reached a size we can freely take scions from (also a 4’ wide Banshoho and a nice compact JBP simply labeled as yatsabusa). I see one innovation that’s come into usage since is Parafilm:




This stuff looks good and we will be ordering a roll. I never liked fiddling with baggies, tin foil, or paraffin. I mean, they work but can be a pain-in-the-ass. My question is have you used Parafilm? I also want to try an anti-transpiration solution that florists use. I’ve played around with it and with multiple ‘dippings’ it makes a nice thin waxy coating that could be just the ticket. Any experimentation with this on your part?

(Photos taken from https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2013/02/16/pine-grafting-time/ )

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  MichaelS on Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:45 am

redmoon wrote:MichaelS, I see you’re a grafter. It’s been a few years since we’ve done any but there are several nishikis in need of going over with foliage from other varieties in 10 months time. Finally our very slow growing Kotobuki has reached a size we can freely take scions from (also a 4’ wide Banshoho and a nice compact JBP simply labeled as yatsabusa). I see one innovation that’s come into usage since is Parafilm:




This stuff looks good and we will be ordering a roll. I never liked fiddling with baggies, tin foil, or paraffin. I mean, they work but can be a pain-in-the-ass. My question is have you used Parafilm? I also want to try an anti-transpiration solution that florists use. I’ve played around with it and with multiple ‘dippings’ it makes a nice thin waxy coating that could be just the ticket. Any experimentation with this on your part?

(Photos taken from https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2013/02/16/pine-grafting-time/ )

Hi rm. Yes I'm furiously grafting at the moment. I've started doing a lot in autumn as well as winter/spring. I will be ordering a roll of that ''buddy tape'' in the next few days. I have only used it once to help a friend with adding buds to a White pine. He swears by it. It's certainly quicker than the bag/moss method. But I think it has it's limitations such as not being able to add moisture to the scion if it's needed. Also I feel the bag has the advantage that you can let the scion develop to an advanced stage before you expose it to drying winds. With the buddy tape, the growing scion basically bursts out. I can't really give you a definite answer until I've tried the new method for a couple of years. It may be interesting to try it on bare deciduous scions??? I have never used anti transpirant on scions.

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  redmoon on Thu Mar 17, 2016 7:06 pm

Thank you M. You raise two good points re: parafilm (moisture content & less control with aftercare). I wonder though, since it’s permeable (allegedly) there’s a chance that misting conceivably will moisturize the scion through a ‘wicking’ effect. There being a differential and moisture always flows towards the dry? Aftercare is more likely an issue where you are. Here in our little corner of the globe “drying winds” is a foreign concept (lol). Here, nothing much is drying until mid August (if we’re lucky). I suppose if some takes look sad we can break out the sandwich bags. I don’t much like them though. If the sun hits directly it can get over 100F in no time. I’ve seen some use the baggies and then put a covering over (tinfoil, duct tape). Wait, what? May as well just go with tinfoil to start I think. It makes a pretty good seal and avoids having the bag slapping up against the scion when it gets windy. Easy to add moisture also with a hypodermic. I don’t know. Ever the optimist I’m hoping the parafilm will simplify the operation.

Autumn grafting?? Can you share more on that M? I haven’t considered it and not sure why. Is the objective to perform the procedure after the new growth has hardened but before the decent into stasis? I can see the advantage to a much reduced flow of sap. Is the goal to get some knitting started without the bud actually maturing or do you do it early enough to still have time for the bud to unfurl and the hardening off of the new growth? Intriguing!

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  MichaelS on Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:42 pm

[quote="redmoon"]
If the sun hits directly it can get over 100F in no time. I’ve seen some use the baggies and then put a covering over (tinfoil, duct tape). Wait, what? May as well just go with tinfoil to start I think. It makes a pretty good seal and avoids having the bag slapping up against the scion when it gets windy. Easy to add moisture also with a hypodermic. I don’t know. Ever the optimist I’m hoping the parafilm will simplify the operation.

In autumn grafting, when the sun is still fairly high, The bags can heat up enough to damage the scion for sure. I grafted a juniper for a friend a couple of weeks ago during some cooler weather. (I thought summer was over) but of course as soon as I finished it turned hot and sunny again so had to cover all the grafts with thin white cotton (old bits of t-shirts). Foil mght also be good. I might try that next time! However you can't use the foil for too long without the bag as it is vital to get as much light in as possible. So I'm afraid it's an on-off-on scenario during hot weather for me at least.

Autumn grafting?? Can you share more on that M? I haven’t considered it and not sure why. Is the objective to perform the procedure after the new growth has hardened but before the decent into stasis? I can see the advantage to a much reduced flow of sap. Is the goal to get some knitting started without the bud actually maturing or do you do it early enough to still have time for the bud to unfurl and the hardening off of the new growth? Intriguing!

It has some advantages. Firstly, it is still warm and the graft union heals very quickly. As you say the sap is not rising like it is in spring so the bud will remain dormant (especially on pines) until the following spring. It then shoots out at the same time as the rest of the tree and with more uniformity I believe. I have also noticed the swelling at the union I sometimes see in spring grafting does not seem to occur in autumn. Last but not least, you can graft every six months instead of once per year!
You'll have to decide for yourself the correct timing in your region but as soon as the summer growth has stopped and the next season's buds have hardened (on pines) you can go ahead. Junipers are probably even more flexible.

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Re: A couple of Nishiki

Post  redmoon on Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:11 pm

MichaelS wrote: Last but not least, you can graft every six months instead of once per year!

Haha. Yes, that logic wasn’t entirely lost on me! It all sounds good really so mark me down as a convert. We’ll definitely be taking a run at this. In a typical year I’m guessing mid September or so. Think I’ll go with the parafilm and in an effort to avoid fiddle fuddling around with bags we’ll keep a spray bottle filled with anti transpirent handy. I will be letting you know how it goes Michael. I’m so glad I inquired! Thanks!!

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