my new nursery mugo

abcd wrote:(...) if it was my tree, I would plant it in my garden.

So what?

Postpone the decision to select the branches until you need a saw to prune them?

Make it bigger because big is beautiful?

Imagination, taking risks, and being yourself is much better in my opinion than yielding to "Oh, this is not a yamadori, it's useless working on it, throw it to the compopst pile!".

abcd wrote:Sorry, but I think that with this tree, it will be very difficult to make a choice in the lot of the branches without jeopardizing the life of the tree, if it was my tree, I would plant it in my garden.

This where most people give up on mugo pine. Like I said before,these trees take time and forethought.
But you can cut quite a lot off when the tree is healthy. Half or more of the branches can go at once.

M. Frary wrote:... ...Kevin will have to end up over time cutting 75% or more of those branches off. It takes a little vision to work with these trees. You need to envision what it will be not what it is... ...
But you can cut quite a lot off when the tree is healthy. Half or more of the branches can go at once.

I understand what you are saying. It takes a little vision of course but on the other hand one has also to take some risk, like Alain has said.
This past weekend we were having a seminar with guest instructor Mr. Alfredo Sallacione from Italy. I had with me one nursery mugo pine, a tree smaller than Kevin's. I would like to make something like the quasi raft of Mr. V. Wood but at the end we decided that my tree would fit better to be a semi cascade form, shohin size. It is a healthy tree with lots of mycorrhizal fungi. We have cut almost 85-90% of its branches and have removed two years' needles. No wiring.
I am keeping it protected for the time being and I hope it will recover the stress.
Good luck with yours Kevin!

B&B Mugos can be very rewarding and frustrating and difficult.  Mostly it is the huge clay ball they seem to be planted in.  So---You put this one back in the ground, it might be better to have made a large box with screen windows in the sides and bottom.  It's obviously too big for a colander and if you have to build a box as some are known to do for collected trees a box that has windows cut into the sides and bottom covered with window screen will give you much better service than just plopping it into the ground.  A project for a couple of years from now.  For next year you can start reducing branches and deciding what the tree really looks like.

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Finally I got the image to post. Any way this is a 1988 shot of a Mugo I started working on in 1988. What happens with this tree is probably as much a record of my development as a self taught artist as it is a record of the tree.

In 1994 I think I had developed this Mugo as far as it could go with the trunk configuration it had.  Essentially the tree was conflicted, and something had to change.

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The tree had won many awards in this form but I knew it was not as good as it should be and would never be anything worthy of anything more than local shows.

1996 awards first place and best in show.

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So I set out to do something I had thought about for not less than a couple of years.  I felt like a young swimmer contemplating jumping of the high board for the first time.  After all a venture like this could kill the tree at the worst and if it did survive make it into a design that will take many years to fill in.

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So I changed the front cut the left side of the tree off and prayed.

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This is the image as it is more or less today.  I have not shot any current photos as of this season but they are soon to follow.  

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Photo shot in 2013 during a resting year.

my nellie wrote:

M. Frary wrote:... ...Kevin will have to end up over time cutting 75% or more of those branches off. It takes a little vision to work with these trees. You need to envision what it will be not what it is... ...
But you can cut quite a lot off when the tree is healthy. Half or more of the branches can go at once.

I understand what you are saying. It takes a little vision of course but on the other hand one has also to take some risk, like Alain has said.
This past weekend we were having a seminar with guest instructor Mr. Alfredo Sallacione from Italy. I had with me one nursery mugo pine, a tree smaller than Kevin's. I would like to make something like the quasi raft of Mr. V. Wood but at the end we decided that my tree would fit better to be a semi cascade form, shohin size. It is a healthy tree with lots of mycorrhizal fungi. We have cut almost 85-90% of its branches and have removed two years' needles. No wiring.
I am keeping it protected for the time being and I hope it will recover the stress.
Good luck with yours Kevin!

I've seen the quasi raft in person a couple times. It is my favorite tree of all time. Seeing it in person is a whole different experience than seeing it in a picture.
I said somewhere else before that I would maim someone to own it. Offer is still on the table.

Mike: I'm most surely not going to live for ever and I don't plan on the tree declining because I do, so don't give up.

so vance - you say putting it in a box would be something for a couple years from now, but i can start branch removal next season...

i cannot keep it where i plopped it in the garden for more than this winter and spring.

it is extremely vigorous seeming and as with alexandra's, it had evidence of an abundance of michrorizal (sp?) fungi.
i am also lucky that the root ball did not seem to have much clay to it...

after the 2016 summer solstice, and if i can avoid tooooo much root work, do you reckon i would be safe getting it into a box or large pot and then proceed with some branch removal (no more than half) for the 2016 season ?

(i wanted to pose that question in the mugo train thread, but after the replies to this thread, i kept it here)

beer city snake wrote:so vance - you say putting it in a box would be something for a couple years from now, but i can start branch removal next season...

i cannot keep it where i plopped it in the garden for more than this winter and spring.

it is extremely vigorous seeming and as with alexandra's, it had evidence of an abundance of michrorizal (sp?) fungi.
i am also lucky that the root ball did not seem to have much clay to it...

after the 2016 summer solstice, and if i can avoid tooooo much root work, do you reckon i would be safe getting it into a box or large pot and then proceed with some branch removal (no more than half) for the 2016 season ?

(i wanted to pose that question in the mugo train thread, but after the replies to this thread, i kept it here)

Then I would build the box now and put it in the box.  I was just saying on the side of not pressuring you to do anything you are not ready to do.

I can't find the Mugo train thread???

i am pretty much ready to do what i can safely do...
so getting it out of most of the nursery soil and repotting it would be OK at this time of year ?
then back to the garden for winter or would garage shelter be better ?

and thanks very much for the advice !!!

Vance Wood wrote:I can't find the Mugo train thread???

its under the "bonsai questions" section

beer city snake wrote:i am pretty much ready to do what i can safely do...
so getting it out of most of the nursery soil and repotting it would be OK at this time of year ?
then back to the garden for winter or would garage shelter be better ?

and thanks very much for the advice !!!

Vance Wood wrote:I can't find the Mugo train thread???

its under the "bonsai questions"  section

I found it, thank you

Bonsoir tout le monde,

beer city snake wrote:
[...]getting it out of most of the nursery soil and repotting it would be OK at this time of year ?
then back to the garden for winter or would garage shelter be better ?

That's a very interesting question: I read that mugo pines can best repotted in August. What"s your experience?... Vance, "abcd" ( ), ...

I usually don't start repotting until after the summer solstice, August is fine. You will however, or at least people used to, complain about summer repotting. I have found over the years that this works best with them but still you should avoid bare rooting.

Hello everybody!

AlainK wrote:Bonsoir tout le monde,
... ...I read that mugo pines can best repotted in August. What"s your experience?... Vance, "abcd" ( ), ...

Alain, here in Athens (hot, dry summers) repotting in June (18/06/2013) didn't work. The tree died soon after... It was not a mugo pine but a grafted sylvestris.

my nellie wrote:Hello everybody!

AlainK wrote:Bonsoir tout le monde,
...  ...I read that mugo pines can best repotted in August. What"s your experience?... Vance, "abcd" ( ), ...

Alain, here in Athens (hot, dry summers) repotting in June (18/06/2013) didn't work. The tree died soon after... It was not a mugo pine but a grafted sylvestris.

I don't remember you giving a precise date of 18/06/2013 when we spoke sometime last year.  In my experience that seems too early, I wait till after the June 21 summer solstice.  Or---you can try in early spring just as the buds start to change color, that seems to be the standard time growers in Europe use.  If neither of those work then one of two things are likely taking place:  One, you are doing something wrong, or Two, any tree that is grafted falls outside of my expertise, I do not use them because I have never found one amongst the trees I cultivate.  Having said that, a graft makes the tree neither one or the other, but an individual with it's own set of rules.  If the tree is sold for the landscape trade then it sure should be able to be cultivated as a bonsai.

Hello, Mr. Wood!
I am really surprised and honored that you remember me and my experiment tree and all the conversation on the other forum, Sir!

Vance Wood wrote:I don't remember you giving a precise date of 18/06/2013 when we spoke sometime last year.  
- Yes, indeed. I have looked for the exact date checking the properties of relative photos in order to be precise.

In my experience that seems too early, I wait till after the June 21 summer solstice.  Or---you can try in early spring just as the buds start to change color, that seems to be the standard time growers in Europe use.  
- I also believe that early spring is best/standard time for southern Europe/Mediterranean. Probably something was done wrong, too. But I am not that knowledgeable to distinguish which. I believe I have followed the instruction, though.

If neither of those work then one of two things are likely taking place:  One, you are doing something wrong, or Two, any tree that is grafted falls outside of my expertise, I do not use them because I have never found one amongst the trees I cultivate.  Having said that, a graft makes the tree neither one or the other, but an individual with it's own set of rules.  
- And I remember your reference to the fact that the tree was grafted.
I also believe that taking into account just temperature, which is what I did, is not enough. One should consider also the humidity/dryness, altitude and other factors in order to come to a more or less true conclusion/decision regarding cultivation.

If the tree is sold for the landscape trade then it sure should be able to be cultivated as a bonsai.
- In Greece one can only find landscape material. Nothing else!

Thank you for your time and comments!