My Kamatsile

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My Kamatsile

Post  novsai_Koloy on Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:17 pm

Hello!

I went outside this morning and checked my plants and see which ones I could take a photo to post here. Sadly, most of them are changing their leaves and new buds are popping out. Instead of picking one, I end up cleaning those I had left out to grow wildly and prune them back and so I forgot what I had planned on doing. Mr. Toshiro replied on my intro post a while ago so I was reminded that I was planning on posting some of my plants. Luckily there were still some plants which were not changing leaves. In our area we call it Kamatsile (Pithecellobium dulce). I forgot when I had planted it but I would say it's around 2 years old. It started as a seed and now it about 9 inches tall and the base would be around half an inch in diameter. The trunks is around 4 inches long from the soil to first branch. During daytime the leaf opens up but it's night time now so the tree is sleeping (Sorry about that). Here are the images:

A.


B.


C.


D.


Yes, I know it doesn't look much.  Very Happy  hahaha.. I don't have a front or back since I don't have any idea how to select one. It hasn't been wired. The wavy trunk is a result of me changing it's position from time to time and on the side I placed a plant/shade/wall to the direction where the sun set. So it's sun bathing time is from morning until 12 noon. There still around an inch of the trunk buried under the soil which curves to the other direction of the one you can see. It looked like an s when I re-potted it several months ago. The soil is composed of river sand (not the fine ones), some compost soil, and something like a crushed soft stone.

I don't know what to do with it. If you say that I should just throw it away then I'm sorry because I will continue taking care of it. Peace  ThumbsUp

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  JimLewis on Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:42 pm

Either the first or the third picture would do as a front.  (Of course, a tree in a round pot doesn't need a "front.")

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  novsai_Koloy on Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:48 am

JimLewis wrote:Either the first or the third picture would do as a front.  (Of course, a tree in a round pot doesn't need a "front.")

Ok, I'll note that one. Didn't know that round ones doesn't need a front.. hihihi Rolling Eyes Thanks for the info. That would be the first lesson I got from a master. Really glad thumbs up

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  Jayhawker on Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:43 am

Interesting tree species! An Internet search shows a few examples of this tree as a bonsai. The nature examples also flower and fruit! I think you could develop it as an African form, like umbrella or flat-top. You'll need to know how the tree back buds and how it responds to pruning (and timing), then I would cut the branches back to develop additional buds for branches and ramification. I think it could have nice proportions at the current branch to trunk thickness (not all trees have to be giant massive thick trunks!).

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  Jayhawker on Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:50 am


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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  Leo Schordje on Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:14 am

Your species is one of several trees that in North & Central America get called "tamarind", the seed pods have a sweet edible pulp. They indeed have been used for bonsai. Your tree is young. I think your best plan is to not worry about front or back or styling it, first let it grow until the trunk is over 2 inches in diameter. It will need a larger pot, and will need to get over 3 feet tall to get the thickness of trunk you need to make a convincing bonsai. When you repot, raise the trunk up so that the point where the roots emerge is just below the surface of the soil. Doesn't matter that the trunk is S shaped. When the trunk is over 2 inches in diameter, chop it down to about 4 inches tall. It will back bud profusely. These new buds will become branches. Let the branches get 6 inches or more long. THEN you can begin selecting branches, cutting off un-needed ones, and begin styling your tree. Build the trunk first, then worry about style and branching and front and back later.

It was an education for me to realize that for bonsai, usually you let your young tree get quite large, then bring it down in size. You almost never grow a tree up into a style, you shrink it down into a style. Opposite of what most gardening hobbies do.

Nice species to work with. They will develop attractive bark in time.

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  novsai_Koloy on Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:47 am

That was an eye opener Leo. I guess I was just afraid or wanted to avoid the large saw cuts like with this molave (Vitex parviflora)



It has a 3-inch base and is around 2 ft tall. It has a large cut at the top. Don't know how tall the original tree was since this was just given to me by a family friend after buying it from a bonsai material hunter. She gave me around 5 molaves and 1 of which has around 8-inch base diameter and it also has a very large cut on the top. I don't have any power tool at hand as of now so I wanted to avoid such.

I still have more of these done similarly like these ones which I had just pruned around 2 weeks ago.


left - akasya (Samanea saman), center - kamuning (Murraya paniculata), right - ipil-ipil (Leucaena leucocephala)

But as what Jayhawker had mentioned I could do an umbrella or flat-top to hide them. Laughing though it will still take around 5 years at least. I could learn more when that time comes. I will let them grow wild for now to develop the base and do as what you suggested. Because I think what I'm doing now is slowly killing the plants rather than taking care of them. Sad I will just post updates from time to time so that you can scold me if ever I killed the plants.. haha

Thank you all for your inputs.. ThumbsUp

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  Leo Schordje on Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:52 pm

Avoiding scars on trunks is an art. It takes careful planning. I am not familiar enough with your species of trees to know how well they heal and form bark over cut scars. Instead of letting it grow unrestricted to the final diameter trunk - you can let it grow maybe half way there, cut when the trunk is over 1 inch, the smaller scar will be easier for the tree to heal over. Search for threads on Beech trees, (Fagus) and see how people avoided scars. Also there are a few threads on Japanese Black Pine where there is a discussion on avoiding scars in the trunk while trying to develop caliper using sacrifice branches. These will give you better insight. The technique of using "Sacrifice Branches" is the main topic to search for. And then look for comments about avoiding scars. It is an art. Most of the species I am using heal over wounds fairly easily, and even major trunk chops can be hidden is a mater of 5 years or less. The bigger the scar, the longer it will take to be healed over. But it is possible to heal over even fairly large scars.

In the "Top Threads" forum is the link to Hans Van Meer's excellent article on healing major scars, this may be useful to you after bulking up your trees. Of course Hans was not working with your species, but it might be possible to apply the technique. http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t14115-link-to-my-wound-treatment-article

Hope this helps.

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  kimo on Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:20 pm

A Camachile of a friend ( Juan Llaga). One of the very few nearly finished bonsai of this species.





He intentionally creates scars and wounds in this bonsai and blend it with his ideas.

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  novsai_Koloy on Thu Oct 29, 2015 7:56 am

Thanks Leo. The info really helped me a lot and gave me some Idea. Yes, I was already planning on doing the "half way there" thing to minimize obvious scars. I will transfer most of my plants into a bigger pots first and develop the trunk (and bark). Will also be using the some sacrificial branches to hasten the development. I heard somewhere that you can use sacrificial branches to create , I think it's called "jin". Though I haven't checked the "avoiding scars" and the "sacrificial branch" threads yet because I was intrigued and got stuck on the Hans Van Meer's article. Laughing I will check those threads as soon as I can. Thank you for pointing me to that article by the way. Maybe I could try it out to modify the roots of a Podocarpus which I had. Maybe I will post an image of it later on the bonsai questions thread so that I could ask a lot of questions on what-to-do's since here I can only accept but could not ask What a Face . Thanks for everything so far. ThumbsUp

Hi Kimo, Thank you for showing me that this tree can handle big scars.

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  novsai_Koloy on Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:39 pm

A short update after 3 months:



As advised, I let it grow wild for now.. I'm glad that it has responded well with the nutrients I gave it and it has grown taller.. BUT.. the ants are also happy that they can domesticate these scales.. I just rubbed all these scales off... Twisted Evil  will check again next week whether the ants had spare scales at home.. I was amazed that the ants didn't bit me while I was picking them off the plant.. maybe they were camera shy or something.. Very Happy The centre branch died so I'm left with 2 branches now.. but I guess it does not matter for now.. To thicken it up is the first priority at the moment..  

ow.. for the kamuning (Murraya paniculata).. I had uploaded a picture of it somewhere in this thread.. the one on the centre with a metallic pot/bowl.. the one with almost no leaves on.. Very Happy transferred it on a bigger container (the one on the pic)  about a week ago..



it had more leaves than before.. and the base had thicken up more a bit.. sadly, as you can see on the image, there was a root that had died..

so that is it for now..

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Re: My Kamatsile

Post  Leo Schordje on Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:12 pm

Excellent progress. Keep up the good work. There is a Philippine artist that posts here by the name of Jun. Definitely search and look at his posts. He uses Philippine native species. He may be better able to guide you than myself or others that are not in your climate.

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