Artesan's Cup

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Artesan's Cup

Post  dick benbow on Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:17 pm

Ryan Neil's effort to raise awareness of american bonsai and to address the hobby as art was held this past weekend in Portland Oregon at the art museum.
Was well arrended, had visitors from as far away as Taiwan, and Australia. Nice vendor's tent of which I probably spent an hr looking thru Sara Rainer's pots.

I thought it was a very nice effort and good to have so "close" to where I lived that I could get there and back the same day. ( 3 hr drive there)

That said, the reason I brought the subject up was an impression made by the trees that to be perfectly honest, left me wondering. And that was the majority of the trees were obviously yamadori dug and huge. The ones I remember were smaller and obviously started as nursery stock but the owners had done a remarkable job of meticulous training and maintenance with over the years. Is that the trend these days? Have mother nature design your tree? Instead of investing decades into cultivation, can we now have a show ready bonsai in a matter of a few short years? Is there value in designing a tree with your advanced training or is it just as equal
to have a tree dug in the mountans, adjusted for a year, and then potted up and ready for show the next season. from a judges standard which one earns more respect.
I have 40 years in koi. the last 3 years I judged small and medium sized koi shows regionally. Many was the time I picked an older koi, not quite as show ready
as younger ones but because of their age and the length of time their quality and pattern held up, had to be acknowledged as the worth of the breeder and the effort of the owner to maintain. Very easy to fly in a younger koi from Japan to immediately compete with no effort by the new owner other than to pay for the priviledge of winning....

does it even make a difference or is it all about the here and now? Curious as to what the majority think....


dick benbow
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  Toshiro on Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:11 pm

I know I am speaking out of turn. I would like to ask if the preference for yamadori in this show is a representation of local tastes? Also, I have read about many trends that come and go in bonsai. Or perhaps in the case with Ryan Neil who studied in Japan and had a great deal of material to work with prefers yamadori because it is in fact bigger which might be harder to come by in the U.S.

I am a novice and know very little, so excuse me if you would please.

Toshiro
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  dick benbow on Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:38 pm

I think you bring forth a good point that I had not considered. That this trend may be more of a localized one on the west coast then anywhere else. Bill V. from new york was on hand and would be interesting to get a comment from him as he has experience with both coasts.

dick benbow
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  JimLewis on Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:23 pm

Availability, availability, availability! You have an environment with high, rugged, relatively new (geologically speaking) landforms with mostly conifers at high elevation where trees are exposed to the exigencies of wind, ice, freeze and thaw. You also have a batch of healthy young Turks who can muscle these out of their rocky homes at high elevation and drag them back to more pleasant environs.

Not a lot of that in the old, tired rounded Appalachian chain of mountains out here in the east. Put one of those trees in a similar show around here, and you end up with an out-of-place gee whiz tree.

Imagine what the trees would look like had the event been held in Singapore.

Just enjoy and remember there are danged few yamadori left in Japan.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  jgeanangel on Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:09 pm

I think you just have to put this in perspective... Ryan's show is of course going to highlight the material and trees that he has the most obvious talent with...collected mountain material. This is exactly the same as the US National show which looks very much like the trees and work Bill is famous for...as it should. Even the Carolina Bonsai Expo has a tendency to reflect Arthur and his talents... There is always going to be some influence and bias toward the organizer...nothing wrong with that, its just the nature of the beast.

Furthermore, i think you would be confused if you don't recognize that there was a significant level of marketing involved in this recent show...Smart man!

Size wise...i was shocked at the size of the trees in Japan...I suspect the many of the trees in this show are similarly sized.

Personally, i 'm as taken by these amazing collected trees as the next person, and I wonder what they will look like after decades of training? But, i have more appreciation for the trees that have been already worked and cared for on a daily basis for decades.... Both are appealling but very different animals.

I absolutely hope this endeavor was a success and continues to be a success and adds to our greater bonsai experience!

Dick...it takes all kinds and for me it is nice that the bonsai community is diverse enough to support a variety of perspectives... It is also great that we have people like Bill, Arthur, and Ryan that have enough passion and drive to give us options and choices.

jgeanangel
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  dick benbow on Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:12 pm

nicely expressed! Smile

dick benbow
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:10 pm

A hobby or a business or a vocation ?
I guess that is how I would look at it.
Laters.
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  LanceMac10 on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:23 pm

drunken ..rising tide lifts all boats......BBBRRRUUUUUPPPP....... drunken

LanceMac10
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  LanceMac10 on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:30 pm

wha, what, wha....have you seen the rest of these    


Beaurangel

LanceMac10
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:35 pm

one of our AAC guys attended (steve c)... i will try to twist his arm when he gets back to convince him to make post #2 on this forum...
i will explain that like many things, it hurts the most the first time... the second time s/b more comfortable.

and well put john re: acceptance of diversity !

and a solid HARRUMPH to lance and foster !

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  JimLewis on Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:34 pm

..rising tide lifts all boats......BBBRRRUUUUUPPPP.......
wha, what, wha....have you seen the rest of these

Is there -- or was there -- a purpose for these idiotic messages?

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  LanceMac10 on Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:06 pm

You bet, Jimbo....

Anything that brings attention to a niche HOBBY that we all enjoy......
Will bring along with it advancements, innovations and most importantly, new participants.....


I thought this was "The Lounge", not someone's young one's Tea table.
Some of use may not be as formal as yourself.







This is usually when I grab a fellow by the scruff of his neck and his belt loop and give a strong toss.




clown lol!

LanceMac10
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:20 pm

JimLewis wrote:
..rising tide lifts all boats......BBBRRRUUUUUPPPP.......

Is there -- or was there -- a purpose for these idiotic messages?

jim - i thought a world weary traveler such as yourself would be familiar with that one...

and i believe the foster brooks reference needs no explanation because...
well... er... um... because its foster brooks !

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  Richard S on Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:44 pm

Obviously I didn't attend this show (because I live on the other side of the world Cool ) so I haven't seen the trees in question (no one take any photos I suppose?) but I would agree that yamadori aren't the be all and end all of bonsai.

This is good because I don't have access to dig any and I can't afford to buy them (have you seen what people charge!!!!).

Still, I doubt that even Ryan Neil can dig up an ancient mountain tree, pot it and style it in a year and then have it show ready for the next season.

I think some may be underestimating both the time and skill required to turn crude raw material into show quality bonsai.

Although as I say, I haven't seen these trees so perhaps I'm wrong.

Regards

Richard

Richard S
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  Toshiro on Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:32 pm

you can see some pictures here http://valavanisbonsaiblog.com/
and here : http://www.bonsaiempire.com/blog/artisans-cup-winners


Last edited by Toshiro on Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a link)

Toshiro
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  Marty Weiser on Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:26 am

I agree that many of the trees were huge - often well over 1 meter tall. Even the two shohin displays seemed to have larger than what I think of as shohin trees.

The conifer yamadori were impressive and won the major awards. I look froward to seeing how they develop over the next 20 years or so. However, I was far more impressed with the deciduous trees that had many years of training and took pictures of those (camera phone so I don't know if they are worthy of posting).

Marty Weiser
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  JimLewis on Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:47 pm

foster brooks !

I suppose I could Google that name, but why?

And my question to Lance remains . . . also why?

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  LanceMac10 on Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:09 pm

Goodness, Jim. If you don't know of Foster Brooks, perhaps you could climb out from under the rock where you have been living.
My responses relate to the fact that people need to get a grip on reality
Extoling a competition to me is just as ridiculous as panning it.

Was this good for the hobby or does it devalue it?
The organizers raised the bar a bit for American shows...."Rising tide"
This can only effect the rest of us, "boats" in a positive manner.

Now spit out that lemon you've been sucking on your whole life and try something sweet,
Maybe your attitude will sweeten....

Have a great day!!

LanceMac10
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  M. Frary on Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:20 pm

Hey,I don't know who Foster Brooks is either!
Now if you don't mind Jim and I will never care either.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  kevin stoeveken on Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:15 pm

foster brooks is lance's cocktail consumption coach Wink

and now back to the artisans (overfloweth) cup

i pirated this pic from bonsai bark (and i forget where wayne pirated it from pirat )


per wayne: the above tree is by ryan and was not part of the contest/show, but instead greeted visitors at an entrance foyer...
he estimated it as being 5-6 feet long (almost 2 metres)

i personally am not crazy about it.

i see too much to really see anything

almost like the old saying "i cant see the trees for the forest"
except in this case: "i cant see the tree for the tree..."

as an aside, i saw that someone used a skateboard as an accent in one display...
even as a lifelong skater, i just dont get that one...

BUT from what else i saw of the show, it really did raise the bar for showing potted trees in north america (note emphasis)

especially that lighting they used... outstandingly presented.

i still believe the show last year (or year before ?) in jakarta (i believe) exceeded the artisans cup in the quest to present the trees in a new and "art gallery" type presentation... though both were very different from each other...

just my 2 pennies worth...



(jim and mike... i bet by now you both know who foster brooks was... the curiosity was killing you, right ? Wink  )


Last edited by beer city snake on Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  kevin stoeveken on Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:33 pm

sorry... make that TWO displays that had a skateboard as an accent... scratch

from the cup's website:



and from bill V.s website



the first one actually works... and is very topical considering the show location and the (presumed) origin of the material...
someone who has never seen a drop-through deck w/ wheel cut-outs might not even recognize it for what it is...

the second one, not so much...
it just looks like a skateboard deck hung on a post...

but still, it made the big gig which brings us back to subjectivity...

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  Toshiro on Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:11 pm

beer city snake wrote:
almost like the old saying "i cant see the trees for the forest"
except in this case: "i cant see the tree for the tree..."
Oh man i really liked that quote

Toshiro
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  dick benbow on Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:39 am

just an interesting aside....this event drew the biggest opening day crowd ever at the history of the art museum.....to me that's saying something....Smile

dick benbow
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  Marty Weiser on Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:29 am

The skateboards were associated with trees from the Pacific Bonsai Museum and I got the impression that they were more of a sponsor acknowledgement than a true accessory to the planting. I also did not care that much to Ryan's large tree out in the entrance/exit area, but that is just my taste.

Marty Weiser
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  kevin stoeveken on Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:27 pm

Toshiro wrote:
beer city snake wrote:
almost like the old saying "i cant see the trees for the forest"
except in this case: "i cant see the tree for the tree..."
Oh man i really liked that quote

thanks T !

i think thats a keeper in this endeavor of ours  Wink

Marty Weiser wrote:The skateboards were associated with trees from the Pacific Bonsai Museum and I got the impression that they were more of a sponsor acknowledgement than a true accessory to the planting.

really ?
that seems odd and i would like to hear more about that if you or anyone knows...

were they made of local wood ?
how were they associated with the PBM ?

like i said, the first example i showed really does work on its own level and i do believe that was an intended as an accent (the one with the pacific northwest native american styled eagle - totally appropriate)

if the second one (the red one with a mountain scene) was a sponsorship acknowledgement it was poorly placed and seems really really really out of place if that was the intent...

and if they were sponsors of the show, i would like to know what companies they were...

sign me,
curious

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Artesan's Cup

Post  Sponsored content Today at 12:13 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum