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Should I adjust my water pH?

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dick benbow
Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai
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JimLewis
Precarious
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Should I adjust my water pH? - Page 2 Empty Re: Should I adjust my water pH?

Post  Precarious Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:29 am

Yeah, thx, good read. And I looked in the mirror after... maybe a little geekier now Shocked
I'll have to chew on this info a while. I did notice Dr. Whitcomb mentioned watering only until a few drops drained away. If Ca++ is the bully he says it is, it would be interesting to note whether it even builds up in a pot where a thorough flushing type of watering technique is used.
Precarious
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Post  Leo Schordje Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:39 pm

I found the Whitcomb's article a little dense and I'm not sure it relates to the much more inert bonsai media we tend to use. Peat moss has a high cation exchange capacity, and his mixes were largely peat & pine bark. More orientated to the nursery trade.

However I largely agree with the notion pH is not the problem we should be worrying about.

First virtually all municipal water supplies buffer their water to a pH around 8.0 as a health requirement, pH around 8 won't leach lead from old water pipes. Usually the buffering is minimal, and overcome easily by the the plants own capability to modify the root zone environment.

What is critical is total alkalinity, ph in a low total alkalinity solution is very easy to swing in any direction. In a high alkalinity solution, it is difficult to adjust pH, just as Whitcomb states. Total alkalinity is traditionally determined by titration. Not something easy to do at home. A good stand in for guessing what total alkalinity is will be Total Dissolved solids. Generally, except in rare instances, for most water supplies, the dissolved minerals in water will largely be limestone, calcium and magnesium carbonates, possibly sulfates too.

If you are on a municipal supply, you can request the water chemistry report and it should include total dissolved solids(TDS). If your TDS is less than 50, you can use the water out of the tap for even the most sensitive plants such as carnivorous plants. Azaleas will love it, though they do tolerate harder water.

If your TDS are less than 300 ppm this is still high quality water, and won't be likely to cause any problems for most plants. Azalea and hornbeams and other salt intolerant species might appreciate a few flushings with rain water, hopefully you get rain at least once a month. But in general, water in this range is just fine. Kevin, Lake Michigan water is about 220 ppm TDS, with at total alkalinity of about 175. Excellent quality water. Lake Superior has about half the TDS of Lake Michigan. Erie has slightly more than Michigan. All the great lakes have good quality water.

If you TDS is over 300ppm, but less than 1000 ppm, it is still useable, especially for junipers, pines, and other salt tolerant species, but you might have trouble with azalea, hornbeams, beech, and other acidic soil plants. Here I would consider collecting rain water and using rain water for every third or every other watering if you are able to collect enough. But if the trees are dry, use this water, its not that bad. Chlorosis in the leaves of sensitive plants will let you know if your water is the problem.

If your TDS are greater than 1000 ppm, you have HARD water. Fish will bounce twice before going under. Lime accumulations will form quickly. BUT many junipers, pines and other trees won't seem to care. The acid loving trees will really, really hate this water. Only at 1000 ppm TDS or higher would I consider the use of RO or DI water systems a reasonable expense.  If you do have to use water this hard, remember that as a pot approaches dryness the concentration of salts in the soil water film goes up as the pot gets closer to dry. Trick to using hard water is keep the plants wet. Never let them dry out, use a mix that has good air voids yet holds water, and keep them wet. Otherwise invest in a Rain water, RO or DI system.

How high can TDS go? I have heard of wells in the karst region of Wisconsin with TDS just under 2000 ppm. That is quite hard, and definitely a problem. But well water this hard is not common.

Measuring pH is tricky, so I don't talk about it. Only worry about TDS and you will be fine.
Leo Schordje
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Post  Precarious Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:27 am

Thanks, Leo, very helpful, and I think Whitcomb was pointing in this direction(dissolved solids) after his effort to debunk pH being the direct effector. Omaha's water, from the 2013 MUD report, shows the dissolved solids averaged 417 ppm while ranging as high as 556.
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Post  Auballagh Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:00 am

Whew.... Embarassed

Very informative.

And, thank you very much for the carefully researched response. You have learned - and taught us - a lot. Smile
Auballagh
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Post  Jayhawker Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:35 pm

Leo - Good info on TDS guidelines. Unfortunately, my water has a range of 340-750 TDS and not enough rainfall. I agree that Dr. Whitcomb's soil is (or should be different) from our bonsai mixes. However, under the anonymity of the internet, I will confess that most of my trees are still in the very early early stages of training and are in a cheaper nursery-type mix of pumice and bark. But let's ignore that so this thread doesn't get hijacked into another mix discussion.

Precarious also made made a good point that I don't want to get lost. The Whitcomb study also did not test the effects of flushing, which is how I assume most of us water. This should also lower the buildup of Calcium.

And we also repot on a relatively frequent basis.

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