I found some stones

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I found some stones

Post  landerloos on Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:20 am

Are they okay or should I just trash the again.
I ask for brutal honest opinions, I'm new at this Wink
The first 3 stones I found in Bretagne (France)
The 2 last ones I found in Denmark
All stones are small
Kind regards
Peter


one and the same stone


One and the same stone


now for the Danish stones:

looks like an eg hehe


Now the hard part hase to come finding a tutorial on making dai and produce them Wink

landerloos
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I found some stones

Post  Guest on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:22 pm

Hi Peter:

Living in a material world and in contemporary material culture, there is monetary value in everything.
I don't know about Europe, but there are stone markets in East Asia and in the United States.
One way to decide whether a stone you collected is worth keeping is to ask youself: Would I pay to have that stone?

There are obvious exceptions such as stones with sentimental value, but generally answering the question above, a few days after the euphoria of collection is worn off, will clarify the situation.

While it is but one answer of the many possible ones, it works for me.

Cheers from the "original" Peter.

Peter Aradi
IBC member since the VERY early days and a resident of San Antonio, Texas.

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Re: I found some stones

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:40 am

Hi Peter Landerloos... Peter Aradi covered an intersting consideration , but many stone lovers collect for themselves with little concern for value. If a stone resonates for you as artistic, it may or may not be seen similarly by the next viewer.

Few stones are fully appreciated until well-mounted in a fitted stand or tray. To know if that effort is worthwhile, you should be familiar with stone appreciation-- especially appreciation developed in China & Japan as well as in your world region.

Stones below 4"/10cm in length are seldom displayed independently as suiseki, but might be displayed in combination with several objects within a space or on a multi-tiered stand.

What did you see in the stones suggesting their selection as apt?

Japanese bonsai teacher Kunio Kobayashi found a stone outside a French Airport which he later used to teach me a lesson on stone placement. It is very treasured by me, but not more substantive in quality as a suiseki than a similar stone which you share. Most enthusiasts collect stones they like, first. Later, finding stones that others like and learning more of alternatives, fewer stones are attractive for collecting or considered worthy for viewing.

While there are exceptional collectors who start fully-matured in discretion before claiming their first stone, they are rare.

You might enjoy these alongside others and see where taste takes you. The journey can be exceptional if you are serious in collecting & sharing.

Among my first mounted stones was one the shape & size of an egg. The wood stand that I constructed looked for all the world like an egg cup. I still appreciate that stone and think others might, as well.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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Re: I found some stones

Post  landerloos on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:00 am

Peter and Chris,

Thank you for your answers, I like the stones because they (the first 3) they represent a memory of my holliday at the beach in brittany (france).
Yes the size is only for exhibiting with shohin fx.
Any of you guys now of a good online tutorial in making dai, there was one on bonsaitalk, but that one is down and hase been for a long time now.

Kind regards
The not so original Peter

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Re: I found some stones

Post  Norma on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:07 pm

Hi Peter,

I just checked out Sean Smith's website because it had a step-by-step daiza demonstration for many years but sorry to say NO MORE Crying or Very sad Sean who apprenticed in Japan is very busy teaching his craft in the USA and is considered one of the best !

I don't know of anyone else who is ONLINE teaching daiza making but there are suiseki books which give step-by-step guidance. Here's a few :

"The Art Of SUISEKI" by Willi Benz

"Suiseki - The Japanese Art of Miniature Landscape Stones" by Felix G. Rivera

""The Japanese Art of STONE APPRECIATION" by Vincent Covello and Yuji Yoshimura

I'm sure you should be able to order these books new or used online! Try Amazon. com !!

Good luck and enjoy your stones , I have many little rocks which are important to me but may not impress other people Very Happy

Norma

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Re: I found some stones

Post  Hans Vleugels on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:32 pm

landerloos wrote:Any of you guys now of a good online tutorial in making dai, there was one on bonsaitalk, but that one is down and hase been for a long time now.

Kind regards
The not so original Peter

Try this one Peter: http://www.bonsaicafe.be/Making%20a%20daiza.html Or if you like to read it in dutch language: http://www.bonsaicafe.be/Daiza%20maken%20voor%20suiseki.html

Regards, Hans

PS: I wouldn't keep these stones.

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re: I found some stones

Post  Guest on Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:38 pm

Hello fellow stone addicts!

Today is a special day for me, it is my 72nd birthday. I have outlived my expectations and the predictions of my various neurosurgeons, specialist, doctors, and nurses. My Zen teacher gave me the name “Healing Mountain.” So far I have lived up to it and earned it. So permit me to indulge myself and write about a subject near and dear to my heart: Viewing stones – The next generation.

This posting is actually addressed to the stone enthusiasts who have been collecting, buying, selling, trading, presenting and get presented, and stealing viewing stones. You know who you are. You are the ones who attended conventions and exhibits, looked at and exhibited stones, spent more hours driving to places in hope of finding a stone than you would care to admit and went home disappointed. This is for those of you who had that EUREKA moment of discovering that rare stone, the keepers, and the ones that deserve the caress of a great daiza and a place on the table at the next exhibition so it can be shared. You folks owe a great debt to your teachers who taught you the “rules,” the way of displaying stones, the way to take care, enhance and maintain stones, and how to classify stones by various criteria, including “leaverites,” stones that should have been left alone on the beach or at riverside because they were not worthy to be part of your collection. You also owe a debt to the next generation, the time and effort to pass on your knowledge and experience you have gained through hard work and for which you paid your tuition in time, effort and money.

This forum, the premiere viewing stone forum of the Internet in my opinion, became “politically correct.” In order not to offend and turn away newcomers, we became too nice and refuse to criticize. It seems that none of us are willing to step forward and say that certain stones posted on this forum do not meet any of the viewing stone criteria, except perhaps sentimental value. Yes there is a place for that too; I have a collection of paper arts that includes Japanese prints, Chinese and American water colors, etc., and it also includes my two sons and two grandchildren’s scribbling from first grade. I often show my paper art to friends, but not my children’s work. That is a very different form of art that is too complex to be discussed here.

In summary, let me ask my fellow stone addicts to be honest and open in sharing their opinion with new comers. Tell them what you really think of their stones, help them develop an eye for the art. Let’s not fall into the trap of being politically correct. I hope that we all repay our teachers in the future by honest criticism: Praising a stone that is good and criticizing those that do not worth the space on our shelves.

For those of you, who are still reading this, thank you for your time.

Sincerely yours

Peter Aradi
San Antonio, Texas

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Re: I found some stones

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:38 pm

Hi Peter... Happy Birthday. I hope you have MANY more.

Your latest post seems worthy of a separate thread. Responding here would hijack PeterL's thread. Do I have your permission to split this thread with a title of your choice and leading with your last post?

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... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

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Re: I found some stones

Post  Guest on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:59 pm

Chris:

I had no intention to hijack the thread; my comments are very much about this thread.
However, you are the coordinator so it is YOUR call.

Cheers.

Peter Aradi

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Re: I found some stones

Post  landerloos on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:12 pm

Hi Peter well written,
Thats what I'm asking for in my post.
And ofcourse a happy birthday to you and all the best scorpio (me to)

Hans: why would you not keep them?
Did not see this post on the café Embarassed

landerloos wrote:Are they okay or should I just trash the again.
I ask for brutal honest opinions, I'm new at this Wink

I also do not think he is highjakcing my post Chris.

Kind regards
Peter


Last edited by landerloos on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : addet more text)

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Re: I found some stones

Post  Hans Vleugels on Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:22 pm

landerloos wrote:Hans: why would you not keep them?
Did not see this post on the café Embarassed

Not enough quality in my opinion. Or like Peter stated: I would not pay money for these stones.

Grtz Hans

PS: Happy B-day Mr Aradi.

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Re: I found some stones

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:48 pm

Hi PeterL... Perhaps the earliest illustrated web description of Sean Smiths's daiza construction technique was posted by IBC's webmaster Kev Bailey. It is for a cut stone, but you still can learn from it:
http://www.actionvideo.freeserve.co.uk/isasdisplay.htm

For a small stone, a Dremel-style rotary tool (1/8" shank) and handchisels (the most basic 5-tool set) are all that I use to craft a small wood seating for a naturally contoured stone which is not cut. Of course, having the exterior edge cut with a scroll saw allows close alignment; a rougher cut requires more shaping. A closely fit daiza for a suiseki-style stone should not extend far beyond the stones outer-most edge & might not extend as far as that edge. You need to look at examples. Of the books Norma suggested, I would recommend two for Japanese-style seating-- the Covello & Yoshimura text (inexpensive and well worth owning) and the Rivera text. Find the "Nippon Suiseki Association" website for very good examples of daiza-style or find a source for books published by the Association. Read the newsletters & note illustrations on the California Aiseki Kai newsletters available on the web; consider joining CAK if you find the material worthwhile.

As you find more distinctive questions to ask that aren't answered in books, respondents here will respond more distinctively and you hopefully will find an answer that satisfies your need.

Is there undue stress caused by "political correctness" directed by rigid guidance or uncritical review on IBC? No one is bound to respond to a post except as they see fit, and those more experienced are reasonably expected to be more advanced. Few posters are left dangling, and the generosity of many assures this seldom occurs. We are all learning and practices seem extremely varied. Sometimes, listening is best.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

Chris Cochrane
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Re: I found some stones

Post  David Brunner on Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:36 am

Peter (the younger),

Your posting has generated good conversation from which we all can learn! Thank you for that. I have been collection stones and such for a long time as “durable mnemonics” (i.e. things to spark a memory), it seems from your posts that the stones you have shown us may fall into that category. I have also posted a few (not enough) of these stones on this forum to get feedback on their relevance as legitimate viewing stones. Their value to me as “durable mnemonics” and items of personal value is (or should be) unaffected by the responses I received here; however, their value as legitimate viewing stones should indeed be affected, especially since this is “the premiere viewing stone forum of the Internet” per Peter the Elder (with whom I inexpertly agree!)

I like and appreciate the stones you have shown us for the value they represent to you. I think that they could be used valuably as companion images to other more compelling objects. However, as standalone viewing stones without personal mnemonic effect, they are not compelling to me.

I’m glad you posted these, because I am too confronted with my own concepts of “value” and “meaning.” They make me confront that many things I cherish have great meaning but little value, and other things I possess have value but little meaning.

Pardon the musing on you post, but I found the discussion interesting and enlightening. I am grateful to you for igniting it!

David Brunner

PS: Happy Birthday Peter the Elder! Congratulations on exceeding expectation – may we all be so fortunate!

David Brunner
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Re: I found some stones

Post  landerloos on Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:32 am

Hans Vleugels wrote:
landerloos wrote:Hans: why would you not keep them?
Did not see this post on the café Embarassed

Not enough quality in my opinion. Or like Peter stated: I would not pay money for these stones.

Grtz Hans

PS: Happy B-day Mr Aradi.

Ok Hans, I understand this, but remember these stones wil never be exhibited alone, they are collected to make a setup with shohin, the stones are small te biggest one is 5 cm long and 3cm high.
I will give it a good tought and I always can put them in the garden or something Wink

Chris,
Thx for the info!


David, I'm glad that you see the opertunety for a nice chat due to my post.

Peter

landerloos
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Re: I found some stones

Post  JimLewis on Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:28 pm

Peter A wrote:

Today is a special day for me, it is my 72nd birthday. I have outlived my expectations and the predictions of my various neurosurgeons, specialist, doctors, and nurses. My Zen teacher gave me the name “Healing Mountain.” So far I have lived up to it and earned it.


And a happy birthday to you, friend Peter, from another new(ish) 72-year-old. WE knew you'd make it -- and more!

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: I found some stones

Post  chansen on Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:43 pm

Peter (the younger) -

Thanks for sharing your stones. I'm a little envious that you had the opportunity to collect in the places you did. There have been wonderful stones collected from all over the world. I like to try to bring a stone back from the places I visit as a reminder of the places I've been. I would love to visit Denmark someday, my family roots are in Scandinavia and mostly Aarhus.

As far as the stones themselves, I don't see a lot in them. They don't really follow a lot of the traditional aesthetic measures used in evaluating stones. I would add one caveat, it depends on how you're going to use them. If you are pulling together a collection of naturally polished pebbles, I think you're on the right track.

I would take a look at this website: http://www.aias-suiseki.it/en. There are a lot of wonderful stones from Europe here. I think a lot of them are from Italy, but there are some from other parts of Europe as well. I think they provide an excellent example of what is available in both larger and smaller stones. Look in the stones awarded and you'll see some in the 'Shelves' category. They're smaller and more than likely would be used in the display you're wanting to create.

As far as the tone often taken is this forum... I really appreciate the politeness. I think it's possible to give criticism without being crass or rude. I often see negative criticisms communicated negatively. I don't think it needs to be that way. I remember when I posted my first stone here, and looking back on the stone it was far from what would be considered a good stone. However, the responses I received were polite while still pointing out the flaws of the stone. The positive response has kept me coming back. It also motivated me to find better stones. I think the tone/culture of any forum starts from the moderator of the forum. In the case of this forum it's probably a little easier to maintain since there are a relatively small number of people that participate (e.g. compared to the number participating in the bonsai forums). I know Chris, and he's just (IMO) a simple southern gentleman. He sets the tone, and it simply reflects his mannerism. I am very appreciative of the contributions of everyone here, but I'm really appreciative of how I can come here, post a stone of any quality and get an honest, but polite response.

Best,

Christian

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Re: I found some stones

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