Reverse tapered trident maple

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Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  leatherback on Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:55 pm

Hi All,

Last summer I was given this trident maple. Beggers can't be choosers and all.. As it was free, I was wondering why. Well.. The tree had some reverse taper, I was told. When the leaves dropped, it was clear.. That is no understatement.

I am considering cutting a wedge out of the tree, and trying to bolt it closed. But I am not sure that would work.

I am curious to hear your ideas about the road to salvation with this.. Virtuals more than happily accepted Very Happy




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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  kevin stoeveken on Sun Feb 08, 2015 7:02 pm

looks like that swollen knuckle is a result of all those branches converging in the same general area, with the biggest culprit probably being the one that left behind that scar when it was removed... maybe just remove most of those and see if that slows it down and allows the base to catch up. so to speak...

maybe even just carve away all that excess... ?

or just trunk chop it below the knuckle and start over...
an especially attractive option considering the cost of the tree Wink

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  steveb on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:20 am

First, I don't speak from experience. In fact, having planted trident seedlings 5 years ago, last summer was my first season to chop. I too have big ugly scars on my trees. From what I've read, tridents will heal eventually, just not quickly. I believe I read somewhere, maybe it was Walter Pall, sorry if I'm wrong, was not to rush the scar healing process. I think this meant that if it was rushed, by allowing the upper section to grow too long, trunk taper may suffer.

As far as the reverse taper, I agree with Kevin that slowing down the growth of the primary branch there by hard pruning might help. It may allow the second trunk section to thicken not only itself. but also the primary section.

I don't think that I'd do a second trunk chop. It looks like that once the upper section develops, the reverse taper may fade into the line of the primary branch. Also, another chop will still leave a big scar and you none the wiser.

What I might do is to remove the branches you don't intend to keep. This will of course keep additional scarring minimized.

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  BobbyLane on Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:50 am

I dont see the reverse taper a issue on this tree, you see trees in nature that look like yours all the time, maybe use the taper less trunk to your advantage, it will suit a broom style. if i had this, i'd make a feature out of that lovely callused over wound, i'd hollow it out and bring it down the length of the trunk, there are some indentations and grain lines down that side of trunk that you could follow....


I see something like this in your tree:



I found this example here http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/hollow-field-maple-4-repotted.html

Hope i dont get in trouble for posting that, but there are many examples over hollow trees over the internet, hope this helps. dont hate the ugly bits, embrace them Very Happy

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Sorcertree on Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:06 am

In the last pic, in between the 2 low branches, you can see where the callous and bark meet.

I Would recut (grind) the callous from right at the bark flap and up, leaving the top roll Intact.

There is only a wee bit of reverse taper there that this would cure.

IMO you are way to close to healed to give up!

Excellent Material!

Sorce

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  BobbyLane on Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:13 am

He can mail it over to London, if he doesnt want it Very Happy

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  kevin stoeveken on Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:00 pm

i gotta say, i'm really digging bobby's suggestion !

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  -Daniel- on Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:53 am

I think a good example to Bobbylane. ThumbsUp

Another example is this style, the trunk is conical not always. Rolling Eyes



I wish you a good job. study

Hello Daniel Very Happy

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Todd Ellis on Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:13 pm

I think carving is the solution to your Trident; it's well on its way to becoming something special. As you can see by that Elm photo, reverse taper is not always a problem...

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  leatherback on Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:20 am

Thx All,

I was hoping to have a trident without big holes in the trunk. So hollowing out is at the moment not an option for me yet.

Sorce, would you be able to mark n the image what you mean with grinding the sideroll?

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Sorcertree on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:27 am

If it does not appear, I will learn German and email it to you!

Sorce

P.s. it didn't appear did it?


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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Sorcertree on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:34 am



Maybe?

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Sorcertree on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:44 am

Well. I can't figure it out again.!

But the other is just the side view pic of the same thingish!

Trying to keep the green circled branch. And getting rid of the others.

The thick red line is where I'd start, and go up to about where the thin lines stops. Maybe just cut the top side a little to restart it.

Yeah. The reverse taper is so little. And these heal so well..
use a good cut paste!

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Sorcertree on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:51 am



Oh man! I think I figured it out!

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Sorcertree on Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:02 am

It looks like you are gonna have this bulging tissue issue again higher up in the future.

I'm no expert. ....but on everything I have with opposite leaves, I'm constantly rubbing off buds on one side.
Unless it is beyond what will be kept. Kind of a lot to stay on top of until you are actually cutting it down for the fork and ramification.

Peter Tea's blog (though not updated in a while) has excellent Trident info.

Sorce

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  leatherback on Fri May 29, 2015 9:46 pm

I did some trimming, and now the tree is ready to take off for summer.


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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Neli on Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:57 am

Tridents heal very well and not too slow I had the same problem with a fig. Had to carve it all over again. Noticed that the faster the tree is growing the thicker the cambium is.
Make sure slope it more on the sides. Prepare a large branch to graft there using Urushibata technique.
looking good!

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  leatherback on Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:34 pm

Hi Neli,

Thx for the response, but I did not understand anything of that..

How is Cambium visible? Or do you mean it heals scars more quickly? That I can vouch for. Already 2-3 mm around the cuts have grown over!

As for sloping it.. I kind of like the position it is in now, which is also with a perfect level nebari Very Happy

What would you want to graft? It is sprouting all over Very Happy

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Neli on Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:41 am

Drling, I have noticed that a tree growing in the ground (or vigorously growing tree) forms a very thick cambium layer, as opposed to a tree confined in a small pot. The cambium is much thinner on them when healing wounds. Hope I am clearer now.
I personally think you dont have a very big problem. The top corner drawing was what I meant when I said Quote:
As for sloping it.. I kind of like the position it is in now, which is also with a perfect level nebari
>>>to carve the trunk chop to slop more, and then to graft in that place a new branch since you might remove all the buds.
But look at the main drawing. You can always approach graft a branch lower and use as sacrifice to fatten the trunk some more bellow (blue line)
But I think that if you fatten your leader and grow a nice fat branch there the reverse taper will not be so apparent or even not be noticed at all. (see dark red lines.)

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  BobbyLane on Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:18 pm

I was looking at this tree earlier and it reminded how much inverse taper there is in nature, in this image i dont think it takes anything away from the trees powerful image...the hollow gives an appearance of age also




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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  Dave W on Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:31 pm

If you want that wound to heal quickly, you need to nick the edges of the callous where it meets the dead wood with a sharp chisel or grafting knife. Every time you see the callous stop putting out new tissue do this technique. The callous will heal very fast if you employ this procedure. Very nice material...good luck! : Wink

P.S. USE CUT PASTE!!!


Last edited by Dave W on Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot to mention cut paste.)

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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

Post  leatherback on Fri Jul 24, 2015 8:48 pm

Look at it go!!


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Re: Reverse tapered trident maple

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