Patina equals only time...or?

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Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:57 pm

Patina equals only time...maybe not after all...I have made observations, and I think I understand now, why the patina became realy nice on the left stone quick, and the other stone still is raw...both are danish, and the same stonequality...both has been in the garden on the same table, only being watered...no oil no acid...only have they both ben rubbed before they went in the garden...there will be some experimenting to do now










Natural colors in the stone is brought to life, and the surface are showing nicely


On one of my japanese stones have I made the same observation, only is this stone never rubbed



The stone is clean with a aged surface...others are too

I think all my stones will be kept this way in the garden for a couple of years too, if the summer show the result I hope for

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  trantanhung_nt on Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:46 am

Hello Yvonne Graubaek ,
I am grateful to all those trying to share with your very positive .
Abouth the natural PATINA ... I observed : Patina is the natural outer casing stones, it is composed of the minerals , metals have in the water and it is mounted on the surface of the stone in a VERY LONG TIME ... And so on , we will be very hard to create it in one time only a few decades ... !!! ??? ( However , I also observed that : Your stones had before on the surface it the natural PATINA ... )
Sincerely ,
Hưng - Trần .

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:46 am

Hi Trantanhung

Yes, some of my stones was found with nice patina, but far from all, at it has to somehow be created.

The stone to the right is very raw....in the beginning of my understanding of patina on suiseki ( am still learning ) I saw  a little handcream ( one time only)and a lot of rubbing as the answer.
But I found the surface did not please me after all...you can still see the lot of rubbing on the stone, after I brought it back to the garden.

the other stone was kept difrent on the board, and this is why the surface became that nice in only 3 years....it had also ben rubbed a lot in the beginning, and it now add a dimension the the surface witch I like a lot, on a stone like this.

The last japanese stone was completely raw when I found it in the river...very old surface, but raw...it has a nice surface now, and does not need anything thing else but a daiza.

The new  old skin on a new found raw stone, will be created by keeping the stone on a wooden board, with daily watering, it will give a sheen that has nothing to do with how the stone was created and put together back then million of years ago.

For some stones does it take 3 - 5 years, and for others many more years....but I think, I maybe found out how to kickstart the progress, and this is what I am going to investigate this upcomming summer....still with the only use of hard handrubbing first with a cottoncloth for some stones, a wooden board, clear water and sun and rain.

Not all people want the old garden sheen on their stones, it all depend of the persons taste, and what the person want for her/his type of stone... I fully understand that, and I do not give my chinese stones this treatment.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  trantanhung_nt on Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:56 am

Hello Yvonne Graubaek ,
I realy admire the practical experience you ' ve shared ...
For me , because the rocks in the area we collect , they are the stones found in the river , or stream in very long time , the natural patina of it is very well ... and the rest is that we need to preserve and not destroy this natural patina . ( Acid and sandblasted with strong pressure ... , that can ruin the nice natural patina !!! )
  Sincerely ,
Hưng - Trần .

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:17 pm

Still having my fun with experimenting the deconstructed yoseki...took this red granite in for expection today, have rubbed it a little ...2 minutes
This is how the stone was when it was found with dirty Black spots from the ocean....they are long gone



Today after 4 months in the upgrated yoseki...still the same collor, but fuller, the Photo is taken with blitz


Photo today, taken without blitz...the stone is beginning to show skin, or sheen. The surface is relaxed, and show no stress from a lot of rubbing...for some stones is rubbing very good, before the yoseki.
Details I could not see before, and collors too, show nicely now the stone is having a natural sheen


Detail...no need to say... handcream, oil or wax is not used...the stone is right out of the garden, and will go back again in 2 minutes, for at least the rest of the season...can take it in any time, if i want it in the house a few days, or exhibit...I only need to dry it up
Some of you know I have used a little handcream previus for some of the stones...but this is long gone, the stone is clean, and was it for a long time before the last 4 months.

No need to say I still love raised sharp polished edges, added later in the house.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:38 am

I find it a kind of strange nobody have asked me any questions...What I have found out, is with the use of the 4 elements used in yoseki a kind of deconstruckted, and in the garden, is to give the inviroment, that give the microbiologi that interact with the minerals in the stones, good conditions to develope....with age will the stone also be old, and have a history.
I am not planning to go back to this page, but just enjoy my stones.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  MrFancyPlants on Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:44 pm

I would love to hear your technique. If you mention micro biology, could you be using organic fertilizer on them?

The forum has seemed very quiet recently, I wouldn't take offense. I haven't been around myself as I have 7 mo old that has been keeping me quite busy. I lost a few trees over the winter, but it is good to be able to focus more on the ones I have left. I should thin the heard a little more.

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:55 pm

I am using nothing but fresh water, sun air and a wooden board, just like the tradition say Smile.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:41 am

The developement of a Kamogawaishi

The stone as it it was found in feb. 2014, Black, but with a bland surface, and a kind of porous...it could take a lot of water...was kept in the garden


in june 2014 I made a daiza for the stone...handling had made it denser in the Black color, but still the stone did not react to rubbing...back in the garden


Earlier this year, did I give the natural patina-Building better conditions, and as I checked the stone the other day, had the surface become nice, and rubbing could to my surprice be done...I had not expected this, and dont think all stone should be rubbed...but it does look nice on this stone...the stone can still hold a lot of water and will be nice in a suiban too.

Many of my stones do already look very nice...some need more time in the garden, maybe a year or two.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:32 am

A another casestory in my experiment of speeded up yoseki


The pale blue doha was found in Kamogawa in 2012

It was kept in the garden...during the year I made a daiza, leaving a leg in every pronounsed spot for support... kept the daiza pale, to make the stone look darker.
The stone was rubbed, to add to the caracter

After one more season in the garden, were not so much happened with the stones surface...in the end of 2013 was it back in the house, I dyed the daiza dark, as it looked better, and rubbed the stone again...

This year I am up to a experiment as you know...and the stone reacted nicely...just like on the other stones, has the surface become prominent, flaws and the good stuff in the surface show...but the stone itself has not changed, it is still smooth

I am not planning to rub it any more, the stone is as it is, showing its natural quiet caracter.
The stone showed me, it was better to move the leg...learning all the time Smile

I will try to take some more photos of the stone, as the last one maybe show the stone when it still was a bit weath...maybe... the stone dry up very slow...I will be back.


OK...added a garantied dry Photo, taken outside.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  dick benbow on Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:56 pm

thank-you for sharing Smile

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:04 am

The monkey I found in february, and gave the good fast yoseki, look old now...it is not, only have it grown a skin, with time will it also get old  

This is how it was when it was found, all dried up, but nice when weat

When weat was it dark like it is now, it is not discollored ...only have the stones minerals ben activated, and developed the skin, were people normaly use oil or wax to bring out the colors, is microorganisme and minerals in the stone doing the job, still only with the use of the original 4 elements of yoseki, but deconstructed...still the stone can hold a lot of water, and I am quit sure the color wont fade, as it is not a applied surface"thing" but only the stones developement from with in.

A closeop explain why this stone became so dark...it is a blend of minerals, and the tiny black ones, has filled out and found their full potential, the stone has not ben rubbed with a cloth.

Also was the turtle nice when weat, but bland when dried up...the same has happened to this stone...and the stone show the natural colors nicely...next photo show the right part of the stone, upside dawn Smile

For some stones is it not only to bring out the colors, but also to fill up from the inside with sediments, to remove the translucent shine some have, that make it hard to the eye to really see the stone, and keep letting the stone look new...the skin give the stone personality...a black stone become black, not just washed out grayish...and not oiled or waxed.
All very difficult to explain...

Kind regards Yvonne





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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:45 pm

This one before, during winter

A little rubbing had given the soft shaped stone some karakter

The first photo is to the yellow side, and the second is to the blue...but I think you can tell  
after this summer, has the stone given all it could regarding karakter...I have again added a little rubbing

The 2 photos is sharp and unfriendly, but in the real life is the stone still nice and soft with a blueish color


Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:31 am

For those of you who has not taken a really very close look, at a bluegray Kamogawa ishi, should I probably explain...
they are not made like a basalt, a even soup that became the stone millions of years ago, just like many others types of stones...The bluegray from Kamo was also a even soup. but with a lot of small other kinds of gravel and bits, in various sices, small and quit small, and they did not melt in ...In the previus stone do they now stand out, and make the "spotted" surface of the smooth stone, after they have ben exposed to the upgrated yoseki...in the future will a little rubbing/dusting in between, and some warm handholding, darken the stone a little.

The stone is to me, the tip of the high mountain that is seen above the clouds...bitten and smoothen by rough weather...a friend from Japan helped me to find this grant view in the stone.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

Post  Guest on Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:03 pm


The stone that made me ask the question, if the yoseki  could grow faster, given the yoseki better conditions...this photo is from december 2014

This photo is taken at the same spot in the garden as the previus...the gray stone is growing a dark gray skin, and the surface is becomming dense and deep...at the same time can the stone hold water....this is almost one year...what will 2 years bring

A another stone I had given up on, but just left in the better conditions anyway, was a jasper I found in Prague a few years ago, now I can suddenly see this hard stone is holding on to water, and a side of the stone with a weaker colourration, is densing up from within, and becomming better...the entire stone becomes better

All this has brought many questions up I need to investigate Smile.
and at the same time do I need a brake.

Very kind regards Yvonne Graubaek

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Re: Patina equals only time...or?

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