quick air layering question...

View previous topic View next topic Go down

quick air layering question...

Post  beer city snake on Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:12 pm

when simply air-layering a branch off a tree, does that put any stress at all on the host tree ?

the reason i ask is that i have a parrots beak with one ram-rod straight (and too thick to bend) branch that i want to remove and figured i would air-layer it off and get it started now while its inside, rather than spring/summer when it is outside (in which case i probably wouldnt even bother with the air layer)...

i know roots will probably take longer to form, but the success of the air layer is far less important than the health of the main tree and either way i want that branch gone asap in order to allow replacement ones to begin filling in.

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

By the way, the name is Kevin
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

beer city snake
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:57 am

Kevin,

to airlayer the Gmelina, make sure the plant is growing well.
As long as you can keep new shoots and leaves forming, there will be no stress.
Best of luck.
Khai.....

Khaimraj Seepersad
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  beer city snake on Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:37 am

thank you, khai

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

By the way, the name is Kevin
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

beer city snake
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  leatherback on Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:05 am

Hm.. Guess I have a different view.. Taking an airlayer means you are blocking the flow of sugers etc frm the leaves to the roots, while the roots keep supporting the branch. I would say that poses a stress on the mothertree. Depening on the importance of the branche that may be a lot or a little. But it does cost the tree to produce the roots: THis is energy lost to the parent tree.

leatherback
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  beer city snake on Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:40 pm

hey mike... i have only done a chinese elm so far and i recall taking it down to the heartwood (per a graham potter youtube) which would remove the phloem layer effectively cutting off the flow from the top going down (leaving the xylem intact keeps the flow going from the roots upward)

after typing the above i did some poking around and found this:
(credited to andy walsh)

The Air Layering Process

In the process of airlayering, the bark, the cambium, and the phloem layer are removed by cutting away about a 1 inch wide ring of these tissues from around the circumference of the shoot. The xylem however is left intact. This is known as girdling. Generally, synthetic auxins (in a vehicle of talc powder or by liquid) are applied to the site where the tissues have been removed. (Although applying auxin is the general practice today it is not necessary for many trees). Wet sphagnum moss (or another moisture retentive soil) is then bunched around and over this girdled site and covered with plastic and sealed.
What Happens at the Air Layer Site

The removal of the bark, cambium, and phloem, but not the xylem, prevents carbohydrates and photosynthates from flowing down the trunk past the girdling site but still allows water and mineral nutrients to flow upward to the leaves. This keeps the leafy portions of the shoot from drying out and maintains them with an adequate supply of nutrients. The removal of the actively growing cambium layer prevents the regeneration of phloem and healing over of the wound. Because of this the carbohydrates and photosynthates flowing down the trunk collect at the girdling site. The presence of these excesses of carbohydrates and photosynthates (esp. auxin) at the girdling site, plus the presence of the water in the sphagnum moss, causes dormant adventitious buds in the area to grow into roots. When there are enough roots to sustain the shoot independently the shoot is cut off of the tree and then planted or potted.

so i reckon i might be ok to get one started now...

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

By the way, the name is Kevin
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

beer city snake
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  Sorcertree on Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:10 am

Hey Kevin.....

I recently watched a Walter Pall video......he talks about not airlayer something to be nice, to save it.

It was an aha moment for me, which led to throwing out a bunch of crap and hacking stuff off of all my tropicals.

I am with you for the practice, or a yard tree, but a ramrod straight branch after a/l will just be a ramrod straight trunk!

What do you intend to do with the layer?

It feels good to make an airlayer....I'm a freak for it! But it feels way better to not have all the bothers!

Polly want a hacker! ? Caw. .....

Sorce


Sorcertree
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:06 pm

Sorce,

the Gmelina, is an amazing shrub, even a straight stick, will become a charmer. It has to do with the combination of trident maple type leaves, ability to cover everywhere with leaves, and the cracking bark, with great surface roots.
Ability to thicken.
Why not try one.

This is also another from China, and so a possible zone 9, and maybe colder.
Pity we have no Chinese growers active on this list.

Now the Sageretia t., is another amazing vining shrub, apparently unknown.......................

Good to see your results with the Ficus.
Laters.
Khai.......

Khaimraj Seepersad
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:17 pm

Time for some pics.

The Gmelina is a shrub and open game on shapes.
Enjoy.
Khai.....

About 20 something years old. From a cutting off of my first cutting.



About 34/35 years old, from a cutting. Responds to long branch extensions.Defoliated. Now in a larger pot [ still not clay though]


Khaimraj Seepersad
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  beer city snake on Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:14 pm

Sorcertree wrote:Hey Kevin.....

I am with you for the practice, or a yard tree, but a ramrod straight branch after a/l will just be a ramrod straight trunk!

What do you intend to do with the layer?

hey sorce... just another small tree... i'm sure you can pick out which one will be coming off in the below picture...



either way i want it gone as there is a a bulge beginning to develop at the convergence of all those branches at the same point in the main trunk and i want to avoid reverse taper forming there.

khai - thanks for sharing pics of yours (beautiful) and the input !

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

By the way, the name is Kevin
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

beer city snake
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  Sorcertree on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:48 pm

Oh yeah.
That'll be a great improvement!

Can you cut these back hard?

No work today. 18inches of snow. I just removed a al from a Ben. And ditched another!

Super bored!

Sorce

Sorcertree
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  Sorcertree on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:51 pm

Khai

Just saw that....Nice trees too!

Thanks!

Sorce

Sorcertree
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  M. Frary on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:55 pm

If you are only layering a branch it will no more stress the tree than cutting it off.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  leatherback on Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:56 pm

M. Frary wrote:  If you are only layering a branch it will no more stress the tree than cutting it off.

Interesting. Could you elaborate on that, in light with my earlier post?

leatherback
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:33 pm

Kevin,

two suggestions.

[1] Tree either needs more light and perhaps warmth, as it looks as though it might be going dormant, but I don't know what the low is for that plant on your side. Perhaps a call to the previous owner or nursery.[ Adaptation through growing in a given climate.]

At 86 deg.F [ 30 deg.C ] high for say 30 minutes to 10 minutes and back to an 80 deg.F with 5.30 p.m to 78 deg.F and then down to 68 deg.F all night.
I have no new growth, leaves dropping on both of those Gmelinas. But I do have continuous sunlight, with winds, sometimes very high winds all day.

[2] If you kept it warm enough and with enough illumination, the straight would just be a cutting. No real need for an airlayer.

Thanks for looking and commenting Kevin and Sorce.

Kevin if you want to, look up my friend and old IBCer, Carl Rosner, do a Google, he has experience growing the Gmelina over in New Jersey. Send him an e-mail, say I sent you.
Laters.
Khai......

Khaimraj Seepersad
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  M. Frary on Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:25 pm

leatherback wrote:
M. Frary wrote:  If you are only layering a branch it will no more stress the tree than cutting it off.

Interesting. Couldit you elaborate on that, in light with my earlier post?


Sure. It takes energy to heal that cut if you cut off the linb. That energy won't be coming from that limb. It comes from the roots. If you layer you are still getting energy from leaves past the layer.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  beer city snake on Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:48 pm

khai... i think any sign of unhappiness is attributable to her sudden and drastic change in circumstances, coming from all day full sun in southwest florida to a window in wisconsin... while the window is large, faces south (in the northern hemisphere) and gets perhaps only a little less light than previously, it is also a diminished light... i also imagine her spirits are not very high having to look out the window at what can only be a very alien world to her... one covered in white and ice... not looking very inviting...

i have decided to wait a couplafew weeks for her to settle in more before any surgical procedures.

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

By the way, the name is Kevin
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

beer city snake
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: quick air layering question...

Post  Sponsored content Today at 11:27 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum