Larch styling question

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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Thomas Urban on Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:54 am

Skiing was definitely first, the buy one get one free is a simple joke Wink

Yes, the apex of this tree is f'd right now, it needs much more ramification and it needs to be rounded. I didn't want to try to make it look like something happened to the top I just knew deep down that the former top would always be an eyesore and I would always not like the proportions.

I took the plunge and cut something off because I feel the new area that will have the future apex will bring the crown closer to the trunk and improving the look.

Thanks for checking it out Smile
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Richard S on Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:21 pm

Trees looking great and I like the new pot (although it's still a bit smaller than I'd choose but if the trees healthy.....).

Unlike Kevin I think you were right to take off the top. I really like the dramatic way you've styled the branches and the apex needs to complement that. I suppose you could have jinned the old top but that might have looked a bit predictable. I wouldn't go mad with the shari idea either for the same reason. The tree has really good bark and too much shari could detract from that and end up looking artificial.

So far it's looking really good in my view so do keep us updated.


Regards

Richard
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Thomas Urban on Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:05 pm

Thanks for the feedback Richard. Yes, I think that the top as a jin on this tree would look funny. I do think though, that trees which have a jin up top can look awesome, but this one would have looked strange.

Have a good one!
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  BrendanR on Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:25 am

Just back from my second boarding trip of the year - season now fully over...

I like your larch, but I think you need to pull the apex over to the right, and try and get it centred above the middle of the base. You can also give it more height.

To me it is just awkward where it is now. If it was obviously leaning in one direction that would make sense. But what you have is a long straight trunk that suddenly heads off to the left. That can't really align with the way the narrative would happen in nature? Surely it would head back into the vertical if it suffered a die back at some stage? In that case there can be a great deviation to the left - but it needs to come back around to the right at a higher point.

If it was showing a lot of movement along its length but reverts to the shape it would achieve in nature - ie top and bottom in a line - that would make sense.

So I would get the top growing taller - on this trunk that's easy to do - and bring it over and across.

OR

I would change the angle of the tree in the pot. If you lean it over to the right so that the current apex is over the centre line of the trunk you will bring it into balance.

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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Thomas Urban on Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:26 am

BrendanR- I see what you mean and I will keep your suggestion in mind. In the future I hope that more buds show up on the crown and that I can adjust the flow slightly but also actually have a crown, which isn't there right now. In any case, thanks for taking the time in writing me feedback Smile

I felt like updating the thread so here are some new ones.

This is about two weeks after the last photo taken last spring with the buds opened up more.




What the tree looked like before trimming. I let the poor Larix grow freely last summer, it did go through two re-pottings consecutively.

and some different angles






I have had wire on this tree for over two years now so I will not wire the new growth this time and let the tree rest.
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  kevin stoeveken on Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:16 pm

damn... those freshly opened verdant buds are sexy as hell...

i actually caught myself longingly reaching out for the screen Embarassed Razz

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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Vance Wood on Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:20 pm

LanceMac10 wrote:yeaaaaaa........that pot HAS to go......huge potential with this tree in my eyes. That pot.....candy bowl...maybe...ANYTHING else!!! Cool

I agree.  The pot is too small for the size of the trunk and the size of the trunk is too large to be considered a Literatti.  Other than that I think the tree is a definite keeper, wish it was mine. A different pot could make this a real show stopper.
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Richard S on Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:59 pm

Well I can't really think of anything new to say about this  Cool

Love the tree, the styling suits it in my view and quality of the bark is really good. I even like the pot .......................... or at least I would if it was a bit bigger.

How long do plan to keep it wired by the way?

Regards

Richard
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  BobbyLane on Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:34 pm

I'd love to own a Rugged, Gnarly european Larch like this! the pot works to an extent, not sold on the colour though and a tad on the small side. would look even better in a masculine, textured rectangle.
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Thomas Urban on Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:36 am

Kevin, Vance, Richard and Bobby, your comments much appreciated.

Kevin- I wish many trees could just stay super lush all year as they are in early May : /

Vance- the quote by Lance was to the candybowl that I had it in before this current pot. I think it's much better but perhaps it is as everyone suggests, I want to think that this kind of a Literati but it's a bit out of that style range, but that could be why I also kept the 2nd pot small.

Richard- I will keep it wired as long as possible so depending on the growth this year and if the wires begin to bite it. The wires haven't actually really bitten in yet so I think this may be the year.

Bobby- Our trees keep changing over time so I think as time goes by this Larix will see some other pots.

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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Vance Wood on Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:10 pm

Thomas Urban wrote:Kevin, Vance, Richard and Bobby, your comments much appreciated.

Kevin- I wish many trees could just stay super lush all year as they are in early May : /

Vance- the quote by Lance was to the candybowl that I had it in before this current pot. I think it's much better but perhaps it is as everyone suggests, I want to think that this kind of a Literati but it's a bit out of that style range, but that could be why I also kept the 2nd pot small.

Richard- I will keep it wired as long as possible so depending on the growth this year and if the wires begin to bite it. The wires haven't actually really bitten in yet so I think this may be the year.

Bobby- Our trees keep changing over time so I think as time goes by this Larix will see some other pots.



This tree kind of reminds me of a lot of trees that have passed through my hands over the years. They really don't formally fit into any one category or recognized style----tuff, I don't care and only those who make a career out of being critical of other's work do. I simply pointed out what I am sure if you haven't heard you soon will. I have always loved the Literati and I have also loved the sense of the style and embraced trunks that don't fit the style. I love the natural collected style and that is what this is. How do I define this style? I don't know. I guess it boils down to can I imagine the tree growing in the Mountains of our great country. Does it speak to me, does it give me a sense of peace and permanence and an expectation of things to come? Some trees in their presence are just there. They occupy a space in our minds for a moment but just for a moment, turn and it's gone. This tree has staying power no matter what it is called.
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  kevin stoeveken on Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:01 pm

yes indeed... sticking a tree into a "style" box is silly and i think over used in modern bonsai...

while yes, some trees fit nicely in those boxes...
but when they dont, no further attempt should be made to make them fit in that box, unless that is your end game.

most of my favorite authors, musicians, artists and trees simply defy categorization.

sometime a thing just "is".


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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Thomas Urban on Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:32 pm

Vance- "This tree has staying power no matter what it is called." I really appreciate that and everything you wrote, quite a compliment.

Kevin- I found that I really enjoy doing things, in this case bonsai, differently from the rules. I know exactly what you mean with the pigeonholing and thus, try to stay away from being labeled something because there are so many different things to take inspiration from. Especially when you see real examples in nature.

Literati is my favorite style as well but as quite a few artists have said, "it's better to use what the tree naturally has and accentuate those featuers." Go with it even though it doesn't fit into any categories.

Your suggestions have really made me think more about the future container for this tree. Even a stone could be great. I may wait until something crosses my path.

Thanks

T*
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Richard S on Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:49 pm

Thomas

A stone would look great but to honest I like the pot it's in, if only it were a couple of inches wider. Do you know the potter?

Regards

Richard
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  BrendanR on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:23 pm

The tree is looking great.  The pot size is ideal, but the shape undermines the taper that you have in that really special trunk.  I'd try for a pot that emphasises the taper:




The yellow lines are where you want the visual flow.

See how the current pot tucks the flow right back in under the tree?

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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Jesse on Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:57 pm

Just went through this thread and I'll share an embarrassing moment. While being well aware that larches lose their leaves each year, I was focused much more on the pot discussion and design suggestions. When you shared the back to back pics where the leaves were just starting to yellow and then abruptly went to completely dead and yellow my heart sank and I got that sick feeling in my stomach when you lose a tree you really, really like. I was so relieved when the thread continued with more suggestions on the design and pot and I caught my error. In a round about way I'm saying I really like this tree. i love it's nebari and taper. I love it's texture and strength. I personally love that pot and am curious about the potter as well. If I were to pretend to have a clue about pot selection for this tree (or any other) I agree with Brendan's last post and having this tree in a pot shape that really compliments the taper and permanence of this tree. I'm not sold at the moment on the pot flaring out at the base but I do feel there are shapes that will enhance the great features of this tree just a bit more. I find that getting the pot right in every way is often not an instantaneous feat for me. Best wishes to you and a great tree.
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  LanceMac10 on Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:46 am






I was just cruising around for some different styles and what have you..... sunny
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Vance Wood on Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:26 pm

I don't like the pot or any pot like it of this size. I think the size of the pot and the mass of the tree conflict and may eventually kill the tree. Larch are wiggy in the roots and unless you are very careful and diligent with repotting this gem I am afraid you are going to lose it. JMHO
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  AlainK on Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:24 pm

Vance Wood wrote:I don't like the pot or any pot like it of this size.  I think the size of the pot and the mass of the tree conflict and may eventually kill the tree.  Larch are wiggy in the roots and unless you are very careful and diligent with repotting this gem I am afraid you are going to lose it.  JMHO

Well, well, well...  Very Happy

I also felt the pot was much too small (that's what you meant, didn't you Vance?). Waited for someone more savvy, or bolder, to post my view of this Larch.

I would choose a wider pot (twice as wide), slightly oval, and plant the tree slightly to the right...

It would be a pity to lose it because of an inadequated pot : you've done a very good job styling it, I like it a lot.
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Vance Wood on Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:31 pm

AlainK wrote:
Vance Wood wrote:I don't like the pot or any pot like it of this size.  I think the size of the pot and the mass of the tree conflict and may eventually kill the tree.  Larch are wiggy in the roots and unless you are very careful and diligent with repotting this gem I am afraid you are going to lose it.  JMHO

Well, well, well...  Very Happy

I also felt the pot was much too small (that's what you meant, didn't you Vance?). Waited for someone more savvy, or bolder, to post my view of this Larch.

I would choose a wider pot (twice as wide), slightly oval, and plant the tree slightly to the right...

It would be a pity to lose it because of an inadequated pot : you've done a very good job styling it, I like it a lot.

I agree. You can keep the tree in the pot it is in and if it does not die at best it will be a novelty. This tree is better than a novelty. It deserves a pot much like what Alan has described.
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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Thomas Urban on Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:49 pm

Richard S wrote:Thomas

A stone would look great but to honest I like the pot it's in, if only it were a couple of inches wider. Do you know the potter?

Regards

Richard
Richard and Jesse- the potter is a local just outside of Brno named Jiří Svačina. He is a walking encyclopedia on plants and bonsai, quite a character. He pretty much makes only rounded pots and adds his cracked look to many of them. https://www.facebook.com/jiri.svacina.79 He doesn't have anything really on the internet and I've visited him twice to grab some of his huge collection of pots.

Jesse- I appreciate your compliments and your concern. I would be heartbroken if this tree died and I consider it my best tree right now. So I hope I can keep updating and share my joy with you.

AlainK and Vance- I also appreciate your comments, because of them I have really started to think about increasing the diameter and finding a new pot. The last thing I would want is for this tree to die and I really mean that. Do you really believe it's at risk in the current pot? Do you have experience that Larix need to be repotted frequently as to avoid being root-bound. And is being root bound such a problem for Larix? I have read from many that pine, juniper spruce etc, prefer to not have the roots played with very often and some keep them in pots for many years without trimming the roots. I would like to hear your experiences.

BrendanR- dude! thanks for taking the time out of your day to draw a possible pot design. I appreciate that. Your rectangle definitely gives it a different feel. Perhaps this tree needs something simple that doesn't feel feminine. At least straight sides instead of decreasing in size as you move towards the bottom of the pot. Thanks!

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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Vance Wood on Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:31 pm

Yes I do have experience with Larch but as to transplanting every three years I would question that. Five seems to work fine. Larch are sensitive in the roots, I know people who have lost them because they exhausted their field capacity and dried out too much. If you have ever collected one you will find them growing in swamps and bogs.
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Critique to OP...

Post  Bolero on Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:49 am

Regards your Larch...
The proportion of foliage height to the trunk is lacking...it needs twice the present vertical foliage to validate the trunk and that trunk is a thing of beauty.
The pot is way too small...
A trunk like this indicates much age and the age would show much more height in foliage, presently does not look like a real Larch...
Vertical height needs to be encouraged.
Otherwise a beautiful tree...

I consider this good proportions...

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Re: Larch styling question

Post  Thomas Urban on Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:15 pm

Thanks for the input Chuck, I think that's your name? ; )

When I bought the tree it was about 10cm higher but I didn't like the look very much so I hacked it. The tree below is a nice example of what seems to me, a larch that is growing higher up but in the company of other trees/larix, is it yours?
When I first saw my tree I pictured something similar to the height I have now and to have very dense and compact crown as if growing alone in high elevation.

These are some but not exactly the best examples of what I want to show.
http://toddmikelsmith.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v68/p1342739932-3.jpg

https://www.fs.fed.us/rm/highelevationwhitepines/images/About/About_photo-tour-photos/wind-sculpted-trees/bristlecone-erect.jpg
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Larch

Post  Bolero on Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:15 pm

Yes I also go by Chuck
Your Larch is excellent viewed in the context of your first Link and Picture, very nice(I also think that is a (Shimpaku)...
The picture I posted was lifted from the Internet, not one of mine...
Here is an American Larch Grouping of mine, 4 years old and still a "Work in Progress" I will be adding several new Larch to it this Spring...





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