Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  beer city snake on Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:47 pm

i just cant help myself.......  Rolling Eyes

this is turning into a bullshit tit-for-tat discussion

joe webb asks question
joe begins getting answers
joe does not respond
different "opinions" are bantered about
joe does not respond
some begin bickering with answer providers
joe does not respond.

does joe care about the answers to his question ?

who the hell knows.

if joe does care, then i think the underlying answer is to just let the plant grow.
if joe has only this one tree and if joe wants to do something in the meantime, joe can get something further along to work with.
(and if the minimum price of some beat up discounted tree in the corner of the nursery is the deal breaker then go dig up a bush from your backyard, go dumpster dive a construction site, or use the colin lewis fast-food restaurant ruse  Razz  )

the bottom line is this:
joe got his answer along with a helluva lot of other good info, should he decide to work on something while this tree grows.

leaving us with this:
should any of us care if joe doesnt care to reply ?

if you are reading this joe, all bickering aside, the earnest replies were posted with the best intentions despite how they may be perceived by some... like vance, i wish someone would have laid all this out for me 3 years ago.


Last edited by beer city snake on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:12 pm

Wow!! thanks guys I was beginning to think nobody cares about decent instruction  ( too many notes)  just a desire for a feel good pat on the back.

Shimpaku Juniper 3 gallon nursery tree:




Here is a follow up a couple of years latter:



And a couple of years latter:



Is this a masterpiece?? Hell no I don't think so but given the choice between the two methods described here which one do you think has born some reasonable results?

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:18 pm

Do you want some more examples?

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  LanceMac10 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:24 pm

Thank you, Sir. May I have another......

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  beer city snake on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:36 pm

LanceMac10 wrote:Thank you, Sir. May I have another......
lol!




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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:41 pm

LanceMac10 wrote:Thank you, Sir. May I have another......

Your wish is my command:



Shimpaku from same sort of material the first group of photos; 3 gallon nursery trees. Sorry I cannot right now locate the nursery tree raw photo. This image is after the first initial styling as submitted to an on line styling contest for a now defunct bonsai site. It did not win.



another angle of the same tree.



The same tree as it was for our clubs show last summer. Is it a masterpiece? Hell no! but it is not a stick in a pot and in the amount of time Joe will indure to get his tree to a point he can start to style the thing, if he follows some of the advise offered here, I will be going through another extensive styling to tighten up the design and further define the dead wood. I should have a tree that brings some awards.


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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:42 pm

More to follow if desired.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  augustine on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:45 pm

Vance,

I'd like to thank you for freely sharing your knowledge and experience (and photos).

Happy New Year,

Ray

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:04 pm

augustine wrote:Vance,

I'd like to thank you for freely sharing your knowledge and experience (and photos).

Happy New Year,

Ray

Thank You Ray and a Happy New Year to you and the rest of the site.



I will end with this series of what has now become my signiture Juniper, the one I use for my avatar.  This is the oldest photo (1996) I have of this tree on its way through three major restyles.





As the tree is today. It won first place in the master's catagory this summer at our club show.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  M. Frary on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:08 pm

Did anyone figure out how to post pictures here from a phone. I have a couple nursery stock trees that are only 2 years out of the bucket for more examples. All junipers too. They are the closest thing to instant bonsai there is. No waiting. Just whacking and wiring. Personally I feel like I haven't the time to wait for a small tree to grow into a big one just so I can cut it down to size. I just go right for the big ones. Like Vance is saying you can practice on a larger piece of material just as easy as a small one. The only difference is after that practice you may just have something to be proud of. Not something you have to wait around for to develop.
Joe: You actually started a good thread. Also, if it were me I would put the juniper in a larger bucket and grow it. Put some wire on the trunk for movement and grow it. It's a ways out but it still has bonsai potential. And don't let us drive you away. We're just trying to help and give advice on what we have learned over the years.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  M. Frary on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:15 pm

I have a blurry picture of that tree Vance. It wouldn't hold still long enough to get a good one.
He had it on a motorized turntable for display. Very cool.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:17 pm

M. Frary wrote: Did anyone figure out how to post pictures here from a phone. I have a couple nursery stock trees that are only 2 years out of the bucket for more examples. All junipers too. They are the closest thing to instant bonsai there is. No waiting. Just whacking and wiring. Personally I feel like I haven't the time to wait for a small tree to grow into a big one just so I can cut it down to size. I just go right for the big ones. Like Vance is saying you can practice on a larger piece of material just as easy as a small one. The only difference is after that practice you may just have something to be proud of. Not something you have to wait around for to develop.
Joe: You actually started a good thread. Also, if it were me I would put the juniper in a larger bucket and grow it. Put some wire on the trunk for movement and grow it. It's a ways out but it still has bonsai potential. And don't let us drive you away. We're just trying to help and give advice on what we have learned over the years.

Thanks Mike I was afraid that the Sticks in Pots are Ok with Me crowd was going to drive this thread off the chart. I really don't mean to start anything it just seems I have a way with people. I rub them the wrong way when I cling to what I believe to be right, and try to explain why I believe I am right. In my way of looking at things I find it really difficult to believe that someone would be happy with the stick in a pot when there is an alternitive. Look at Joes picture: It's not like he does not have an artistic desire in his heart. He is not one of these people floating around without a clue.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:21 pm

M. Frary wrote: I have a blurry picture of that tree Vance. It wouldn't hold still long enough to get a good one.
He had it on a motorized turntable for display. Very cool.

I thought it was interesting but the judge didn't like the turntable.  I put it in that kind of display because I wanted to demonstrate that a tree should look acceptable 360* around.  Too often bonsai can turn out to be 2 dimensional.  I do have a video of the tree in the round but not on my turntable.  Maybe I'll do that this next year. However here is the tree from Youtube.



Last edited by Vance Wood on Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  juniper07 on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:54 pm

My 2 cents on the tree:

Around 6 years ago I planted a nursery Pfitzeriana juniper in my front yard as an intent to keep it as a yard bush (so my wife thinks....), and over the years the trunk has grown to a decent caliper. In other words, this species although slower than shimpaku, may prove promising if you grow it 'freely' in the ground (don't prune the foliage when growing freely).

Another piece of experimentation that I have tried with a Kishu and worked out nicely is that if you wire the trunk and put twists in it (use thicker than usual wire), and let the thick wire cut in considerably, then you can start creating the twisty washboard shari that you see on Japanese shohin Itoigawa junipers. This is a longer process, but must be started early on in development.

Disclaimer: Applying too much twists is a risky procedure and may kill the tree.


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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  beer city snake on Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:55 pm

and just to show the flip side of the coin and that SOME species CAN be grown relatively quickly:

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t16171-portulacaria-afra-spekboom-2-1-2-year-progression?highlight=SPEKBOOM

like i have said before, if you only have 1 or 2 trees, you will be doing a whole lot of nothing most of the time. Suspect

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Richard S on Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:52 pm

Vance

Thanks for sharing you tree images. Very nice and an inspiring example of what can be achieved using good technique, a healthy does of artistic ability and relatively modest raw material.

I especially like your "signature tree". It's in a particularly attractive pot as well.

Regards

Richard

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:40 pm

Richard S wrote:Vance

Thanks for sharing you tree images. Very nice and an inspiring example of what can be achieved using good technique, a healthy does of artistic ability and relatively modest raw material.

I especially like your "signature tree". It's in a particularly attractive pot as well.

Regards

Richard

I should have mentioned that I appreciated your support Richard.  Sometimes I can get so focused on what I am doing that I miss some of the really important things like acknowledging peoples approval.  Thank You Richard.

The pot is what we loving call a Sara Pot.  Made by Sara Raynor a very fine domestic potter that I believe makes some of the nicest pots in the country.  They hold up like steel as well.  Thank You very much for you kind remarks about my trees.  I highly recomend them. Here is the video link I first shot of this tree this spring,  Sara Pot and all.



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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  M. Frary on Wed Dec 31, 2014 7:34 pm

Vance Wood wrote:
M. Frary wrote: Did anyone figure out how to post pictures here from a phone. I have a couple nursery stock trees that are only 2 years out of the bucket for more examples. All junipers too. They are the closest thing to instant bonsai there is. No waiting. Just whacking and wiring. Personally I feel like I haven't the time to wait for a small tree to grow into a big one just so I can cut it down to size. I just go right for the big ones. Like Vance is saying you can practice on a larger piece of material just as easy as a small one. The only difference is after that practice you may just have something to be proud of. Not something you have to wait around for to develop.
Joe: You actually started a good thread. Also, if it were me I would put the juniper in a larger bucket and grow it. Put some wire on the trunk for movement and grow it. It's a ways out but it still has bonsai potential. And don't let us drive you away. We're just trying to help and give advice on what we have learned over the years.

Thanks Mike I was afraid that the Sticks in Pots are Ok with Me crowd was going to drive this thread off the chart.  I really don't mean to start anything it just seems I have a way with people.  I rub them the wrong way when I cling to what I believe to be right, and try to explain why I believe I am right.  In my way of looking at things I find it really difficult to believe that someone would be happy with the stick in a pot when there is an alternitive.  Look at Joes picture:  It's not like he does not have an artistic desire in his heart.  He is not one of these people floating around without a clue.

They just don't realize that you have the best intentions. Me. I know where you are coming from everytime. Good sound advice when asked for in the most blunt manner works great for lots of people. I like it and like to give it. But to some people it comes off as being only criticism or my way or the highway sort of thing.
And yes. He put good forethought in his drawing and if he had a teacher or club to join he could probably go places in this hobby.
One last thing people. It should go without saying but looks like it needs to be.
IF VANCE WOOD POSTS AN OPINION OR ADVICE ON A TREE IT WOULD PAY TO LISTEN! Contrary to what others may say the man has paid his dues and has the trees to show what he is talking about.Look up American bonsai on Google or just Google Vance Wood bonsai. You'll see what I mean.
Thank you for letting me say my piece.Open to questions or criticism.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  JimLewis on Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:54 pm

I may rename this thread:  The Vance Wood Admiration Society Thread.

Yes?

No?

Who gives a . . . ?

Happy New Year, everybody!

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  M. Frary on Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:15 pm

Happy New Year Jim. You my friend are another one people would do well to listen to.
Your work with those little little trees is an amazing thing.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Vance Wood on Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:52 pm

JimLewis wrote:I may rename this thread:  The Vance Wood Admiration Society Thread.

Yes?

No?

Who gives a . . . ?

Happy New Year, everybody!  

Are you serious Jim? I am kind of between No and a hail and hearty Who gives a . ..?

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  joewebb on Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:15 am

Hi everyone, only returned form holiday without any internet access to check up on the post, what a surprise to find all the reply's.

I have printed the complete thread as there is simply to much to read & consider at once & will read through it the coming weekend to respond to the reply's posted.

Thank everyone in advance as I'm sure that all comments & suggestions can & will be used to further my knowledge.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  Sorcertree on Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:21 pm

Look guys!

Its Joe!

Welcome back feller!

Sorce

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  leatherback on Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:36 pm

Happy to see you got motivated, rather than discoraged, by the long list of replies. There is a lot of info in this thread now. not all limited to your tree. So read and reread before giving up on it!

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

Post  joewebb on Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:31 am

Hey guys, after reading the comments posted I decided to fore-go all the pipe dreams for the juni for the time being, I will stick in the ground & forget about it for a couple of years until the time comes when it has matured a lot more, reading all the comments & watching a couple of videos online, reading up & looking at pictures of good quality bonsai it is pretty obvious that the tree in question has got a lot of growing & maturing to go through before to be even considered as as bonsai.

I originally purchased the juni as a subject to practice some cutting, wiring, potting & overall maintenance but after stumbling onto a pic of what it might be I decided it can be more than a torture subject.

Thanx all for the words of encouragement, advise & sometimes much needed criticism.

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Re: Juniperus Pfitzeriana Aurea Material Suitability

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