Shimpaku styling advice

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Shimpaku styling advice

Post  steveb on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:13 am

Okay Poink88, I hear you. Here is my first "real" post.

Here is a picture of a juniper I bought last November and started styling then. I mainly "roped" the crown down. It is about 12 inches tall. I started the shari a few months ago and hope to eventually run it the entire height of the tree. It was root pruned and potted this spring and has been growing vigorously all summer. I'm trying to decide on one of two general styling options. 1) Generally keep as is but allow to grow fuller. I envision the upper and lower sections growing together. The back also has many branches that would fill in as well. Option 2) Jin the right and left lower branches and bring some of the upper branches down so they cascade toward the bottom. Option 2 is how I see most vamadori Junipers styled, I'm guessing because they lost the lower branches naturally.



Let me know what you think or if you see something I haven't.

Thanks.
Steve

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  Poink88 on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:32 am

Steve,

Thanks man. Smile

Post various pics from different sides and angles and someone may see something. Right now, it is hard to see or even understand what is going on. That may or may not be your front. Front could be the current right (looking at the pic) if the lowest right branch is removed/jinned. Your tree looks very healthy.

BTW, if you cut any branches, try to plant them, juni cuttings seem to grow moderately well in correct substrate and proper misting. (based on what I read and my experience)

Again, I am just a newbie and hardly worked on junis so I am not a good person to give you advise.

I do appreciate you helping out...it is very likely that you (we all actually) will get much more in return. Smile

Poink88
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  Stan Kengai on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:35 am

I hope I don't sound too blunt, but I'm just spitting out ideas here.  With shimpaku, foliage is used to accentuate the characteristics of the trunk:  It's all about the trunk.  Right now, you don't have any foliage close to the trunk that you could use to accentuate the trunk.  Feed well this fall, thin the foliage substantially in late winter and do not repot, but be careful to not spoil it with water.  This might give you some back-budding on or closer to the trunk that you can use a few years down the road.  Then you should reduce the height of the trunk to remove the straight section in the top.

The other option that I can see from this pic:  Cut the trunk off just below the first shari and jin the entire top section down to the lower shari, leaving only the lower right branch.  Repot to a much smaller pot and orient the new trunk line to show it's best movement (which is hard to see from 1 picture).  As Dario said, if you want more options, posting more pics is always helpful.

Stan Kengai
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  Precarious on Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:27 pm

The very first place my eye was drawn to on this tree is the base of the trunk. It is very small in relation to the size of the tree, as if it could topple at any moment. If that is a look you like, ok. If you want to thicken the trunk, I would consider the bottom branch on the right a sacrifice branch that you let grow wild for now and jin later (since you are planning jins anyway). As you otherwise pull branches down, reduce the number of branches, and reduce the amount of foliage overall, all those things will add to the trunk appearing thicker. There are really so many options with this great tree, but I think the primary focus now should be to in some way thicken the trunk.

David

Precarious
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  steveb on Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:02 am

Thanks all for the advice.

Dario,
Thanks for the advice on looking at the tree from various angles. I did this tonight and posted the "back". It looks nearly identical to the "front". I thought a side view might look better, but, there would a bottom branches pointing straight out toward the viewer.



I'm still thinking of using my original front but will listen to any suggestions. I also agree that Shimpaku cuttings are very easy to root. I probably have a 5% success rate on maples and elms (about 100 cuttings) but a 90% success rate on these (10 cuttings taken). I also treat most all cuttings the same.


Stan,

You sound fine and I appreciate your response. I agree with you about accentuating the trunk. Seems like I knew this but being told this really hits home - just what I needed. This is my first Shimpaku that I've styled even though I've looked a many. I like your idea about using the lower branch as the new "crown" and will take a second look at this tomorrow.

David,

I really like your idea about bringing the top branches down - this is what I was considering originally. What I didn't consider, was using the bottom branches as sacrifice to thicken the trunk. I'm new to bonsai and never used sacrifice branches even though I've read about them. I'm probably going to go this route - thin and style the top, let the bottom branches grow wild for a few years, then eventually jin then.

Thanks again all for your help. I'll post more pictures as the tree develops.
Steve

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  steveb on Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:43 pm

Here is how this tree looks today.  I found a better trunk line.  The pads need to develop and the deadwood worked among other things. I had some time so decided to post an update.



steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  kevin stoeveken on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:25 pm

better looking so far !

one potential problem i see is the paralleling lower branches on the bottom right...
one dead wood below and one live one above... a bit of an eye stopper for me.
(but that could be the photo angle)

but nice beginning of negative space on the left with balancing foliage on the right

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  JimLewis on Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:40 pm

I'm not sure you have done that tree any favors. Can we see pictures from several "sides?" This side cannot be the front (IMHO).

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  kevin stoeveken on Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:11 pm

steve - my comments were based on the assumption that we were being shown the tree from what you perceive as the viewing side...

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  steveb on Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:23 pm

Thank you Kevin and Jim for your responses.

Kevin,  you make a good point about the bar branches. I may end up cutting the lower live branch back.  

Jim, I've struggled with this tree since I bought it.  Deep down I feel it should be one of my favorite trees because it seems to have so much potential. But , it is one of my least favorites because I'm lost on what to do (because of my inexperience).  I probably need to seek professional help but I need to overcome my own strong sense of pride first.  Do I need two professionals then.  :D  Anyway, here are more pics.




Sorry about the rotation. I spent 20 mins trying to correct it.  I hate iPad.



Thanks again guys
Steve

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:13 pm

steveb wrote:Kevin,  you make a good point about the bar branches.

steve i actually wasnt referring to the bar branches...

the ones i meant are more like ladder branches which ascend parallel to each other along the same vertical line of the trunk
(although i am sure there is a better term than "ladder branches", which i do not know)
in your case a dead wood branch directly below the live branch

steveb wrote:I may end up cutting the lower live branch back.

not so fast... i am in no position to tell you how to style your tree,
but i would give that careful consideration and look at what you would have left for foliage...

it would be safer to consider a stub jin on the one thats already dead to reduce the effect of the bar branches
(same for the one i was originally referring to...)

and here i could be wrong, but i believe dead wood low on a trunk would be most susceptible to natural breakage by any number of natural factors (snow, animals, etc) which would lead to shorter stubbier dead wood...

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  JimLewis on Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:06 pm

I think the "front" is (or was?) the side pictured in your very first picture when the tree was too bushy. Can we see that viewpoint now? Thanks.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  steveb on Tue Sep 29, 2015 5:45 pm

I agree that the ladder branches are a distraction and thanks for bringing that to my attention. They are too heavy and need to be reduced as well.  Concerning the lower live branch,  I normally have to hate something for a year or two before taking action so I'll wait. 

Here is the original front.  







  
Thanks for helping.

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:18 pm

everything i mentioned is greatly reduced by that simple turn of the tree...

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  JimLewis on Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:23 pm

everything i mentioned is greatly reduced by that simple turn of the tree...
But the trunk isn't very attractive.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  steveb on Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:53 pm

Thanks for your help guys.  I think I'll let the deadwood slowly develop on the trunk where I cut the branches and see if that might give me the best front.  And it looks like there will be plenty of deadwood.  I won't touch it again for a while.  

 Steve

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  kevin stoeveken on Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:42 am

i stick a red golf tee in mine as a reminder to not touch...

sometimes i ferget drunken

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shimpaku styling advice

Post  Sponsored content Today at 6:27 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum