Baby acer initial style suggestions

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Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  marc74 on Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:51 pm

i got this young acer skeeters broom

originally intending to do an upright until i saw it.

it has a bit of an ugly graft and i feel lower branches will just create a bulge, not sure they should be kept.


any suggestions on initial styling to set it on its way for a following of big growth before any future major styling?







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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  CityofTrees on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:58 am

Looks a bit more than a bit ugly on that graft...rough one. Will most likely require an air or ground layer in the future. Not sure if there is a minimum suggested trunk size for successful air/ground layering but the sooner the better, then you can start developing the new roots into good looking nebari. As far as initial styling and pruning of lower branches, I don't think it matters so much at this point because the layering will be at or above that point with the two branches opposite each other where you're worried about getting a bulge. I would layer at the point marked in blue. I would say at the lower point right below the first two branches but I'm not sure if this would work at the graft line.

Garrett


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Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  timatkinson on Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:37 am

This is a difficult situation because acer sports will often not root on their own.  I have lost many trying, always thinking this next one is going to work. That is one reason they are grafted.  This is doubly difficult because of the ugly graft union on this one.  I would not try layering but would (if the diameter of the scion is large enough) try thread-grafting common green maple seedlings through the trunk at a point above the union.  If the scion trunk is large enough try at least a two-point thread-graft or (better) a three-point thread graft to establish the beginning of a nebari.  If the scion is too small in diameter now you may need to do several succeeding-year thread-grafts to at least get rid of the union and then in following years work on a nebari  by additional grafts.  I use a caliper to measure scion diameter and diameters of potential graft materials for new roots.  Drill through the trunk, thread the green-maple shoots through, pull snug, seal (I use bees-wax  or grafting wax) and grow as freely as possible the first few years.  I generally don't use mechanical fastening or even tape.  Good luck, this is do-able and worth doing.  Keep us posted.  Regards - Tim

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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  marc74 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:54 am

ok i have no experience with threading or grafting as yet but they are viable options

i would have thought air layer at blue line would be too close to the branch split?

any further suggestions?

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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  Guest on Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:57 am

Hi Mark74

The graft so bad, it will give you a battle you cant win now.
If you plant it in the soil in the garden and forget about it, will you maybe have a tree useful for bonsai in 10 years...
Buy a another small plant, dont use this one, it will break your neck.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  marc74 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:17 am

Thanks Yvonne and all

But I'm gonna have to try something. Wasted money on this.

Maybe an air layer just above the graft but what are the likely chances though

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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  Guest on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:33 am

Hi Again

The tree is too thin for airlayer now.....it need more trunksice, this is why I would plant it in the garden, and leave it for some years....or more years to see if the tree "outgrow" the graft.

Kind regards Yvonne....have you visited a bonsaiclub in your area?...they can help you a lot  Smile 


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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  marc74 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:52 am

Clubs never run when convenient with my shifts. I can take to my bonsai workshop man next year and ask for suggestions.


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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  arihato on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:24 pm

This graft is seriously bad but not hopeless. Will it be a prize winning Bonsai masterpiece, probably not. But you can learn a lot working on it.....
First, on top of the graft are the trunk and two branches, these will exacerbate the problem, so cut one off completely, cut the other back to the first buds on the branch.

Cut the top of the graft, on the stock plant, lower by half so that there is less of the graft. Not too much use common sense. Make the cut slanting downward.

In spring root prune, find a level of roots that is most promising, cut away the roots above that level and plant it in a pond basket. Try to get as good a root system as possible, the work you do on a young tree is easy and will heal fast and will save on a lot of work later.

Now let it grow for a number of years, it is a vigorous upright grower (says the nursery) so make sure you keep enough healthy side shoots.

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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  marc74 on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:43 pm

Thanks good advise

Yes I had thought to remove one branch for now and pot up and leave till spring

But I'm still tempted to try an air layer in the spring for the main and 2nd branch

From reading up this should be possible.

If not then my mistake but would have learnt some lessons.

I feel I need to get away from the graft

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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  JimLewis on Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:12 pm

Yvonne Graubaek wrote:Hi Again

The tree is too thin for airlayer now.....it need more trunksice, this is why I would plant it in the garden, and leave it for some years....or more years to see if the tree "outgrow" the graft 

 

A very good suggestion. It is too young to do much of anything to at this point. Let it grow up.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Baby acer etc

Post  BrendanR on Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:58 am

You are obviously itching to do something to your new purchase - i can understand that.

As a rule I always listen to everything Arihato advises, and I'd follow his suggestion to the letter.

Yvonne is also an absolute expert, but she often focuses on much larger material, where Arihato works on the smallest of trees. So if Yvonne's advice is to let it grow, that's absoilutely true, but Arihato is saying the same thing and giving you a bunch of interesting things to do before then.




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Re: Baby acer initial style suggestions

Post  marc74 on Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:31 am

ive cut the 2 side branches off and slimmed down the graft

if i do as advise and find better roots and clean above, after some years will the obvious graft become less obvious (the colours, its clearly 2 different trees)?

or do as i air layer at the graft?






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