Juniper Itoigawa
+13
robert nocher
RKatzin
xuan le
George Vrey
Twisted Trees
fiona
twyama3388
jtay123
Orion
Tona
Vance Wood
Cronic
Neli
17 posters
Page 1 of 3
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
Thank You Fiona, You are a Darling...I dont have from whom to learn here. I am the only one that has bonsai. So I was lucky some friends managed to arrange the apprenticeship for me. I learned a lot, lost 10 kg, he hehe! And my fingers at one point were bleeding from wiring from morning to evening...But it was fantastic. I tried to specialize in junipers and pines only instead learning bits and pieces of everything and ending with nothing at the end..
I am going in July to learn carving from Graham Potter and in Oct to Indonesia Malaysia and Thailand to learn how they do their trees and pads for I find them so different and fascinating.
My main resolution is to come out of the box. Not do the usual stuff but unique and different trees. I find that most of the time creativity also eludes me...I need to be inspired...and I take now a longtime to decide how to style a tree. But if I get inspired...things go smoothly...and I get this feeling that I am on the right truck...I know I am OK.
Just that I forget the inspirations...so Now I bought a printer...all design virtuals are printed and put in a water proof file, that can be carried in the garden.
The problem with me is I am perfectionist...and things bother me if not OK...then I sit and try to figure out what is bothering me and correct it.
I know in future what will bother me and chop ruthlessly now so I dont waste time later, after growing it for a long time, and lots of irritation to have to chop again.
For me in bonsai all the fun is about creating...That is the most satisfying part of it.
I like to but prebonsai (just trunks) and go from there.
Horticulturally I am OK since I have had 3 garden centers for close to 30 years,,,but bonsai was news for me. With everything I try to understand things first before I try to remember them. So I hope I shall be OK soon. BTW I did a demo in Japan about pines at the garden fair...for the foreigners. A very small one..on repotting.
I am going in July to learn carving from Graham Potter and in Oct to Indonesia Malaysia and Thailand to learn how they do their trees and pads for I find them so different and fascinating.
My main resolution is to come out of the box. Not do the usual stuff but unique and different trees. I find that most of the time creativity also eludes me...I need to be inspired...and I take now a longtime to decide how to style a tree. But if I get inspired...things go smoothly...and I get this feeling that I am on the right truck...I know I am OK.
Just that I forget the inspirations...so Now I bought a printer...all design virtuals are printed and put in a water proof file, that can be carried in the garden.
The problem with me is I am perfectionist...and things bother me if not OK...then I sit and try to figure out what is bothering me and correct it.
I know in future what will bother me and chop ruthlessly now so I dont waste time later, after growing it for a long time, and lots of irritation to have to chop again.
For me in bonsai all the fun is about creating...That is the most satisfying part of it.
I like to but prebonsai (just trunks) and go from there.
Horticulturally I am OK since I have had 3 garden centers for close to 30 years,,,but bonsai was news for me. With everything I try to understand things first before I try to remember them. So I hope I shall be OK soon. BTW I did a demo in Japan about pines at the garden fair...for the foreigners. A very small one..on repotting.
Neli- Member
Consideration 2
Now after the first lesson Oyakata made me think and tell him what elements of the tree can portray harsh conditions and rough existence in the mountains...
The conclusion eventually was the dead wood like jin and shari and extreme movement of the trunk are elements that also convey that feeling.
That is why junipers are traditionally done with lots of this design elements, and when styling a tree, this elements must be included as focal points, incorporated in the design and emphasized.
So this was my contribution for today. More tomorrow.
The conclusion eventually was the dead wood like jin and shari and extreme movement of the trunk are elements that also convey that feeling.
That is why junipers are traditionally done with lots of this design elements, and when styling a tree, this elements must be included as focal points, incorporated in the design and emphasized.
So this was my contribution for today. More tomorrow.
Neli- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
Thank you Neli for taking the time and effort on these tutorials; you've certainly learned very well and you communicate the essence of juniper development in an effective and interesting way.
Please keep up the good work.
Please keep up the good work.
Orion- Member
Consideration3
Look at the tree. Look at it from all directions, see what you like best about it.
Is it the nebari?
Is it a dead wood feature?
Is it the movement of the trunk.
Branches are rarely considered in Junipers...they can be brought from another area or grafted.
Decide which is going to be your front.
If you are not sure take your time....the more you look at it the better you will get to know your tree, and one of those days you will get a flush and know exactly what to do with it.
Ask, post your tree also...Listen to what people have to say...Two heads are always better than one.
I shall start here with first styling of juniper.
Is it the nebari?
Is it a dead wood feature?
Is it the movement of the trunk.
Branches are rarely considered in Junipers...they can be brought from another area or grafted.
Decide which is going to be your front.
If you are not sure take your time....the more you look at it the better you will get to know your tree, and one of those days you will get a flush and know exactly what to do with it.
Ask, post your tree also...Listen to what people have to say...Two heads are always better than one.
I shall start here with first styling of juniper.
Neli- Member
Consideration 4 make a virtual
Ones you have decided on a front it is time to decide on a style, and the first thing you do is make a virtual.
Here is Oyakata teaching me how to make a virtual:
He would always say first: Find the front and call me. Make a virtual next. As I advanced...he will give me a stick and tell me: Make it wind swept style, and that was the hardest...he he he.
Here is the virtual he made:
Here is a picture of the tree before styling from the top and other views.
Here is Oyakata teaching me how to make a virtual:
He would always say first: Find the front and call me. Make a virtual next. As I advanced...he will give me a stick and tell me: Make it wind swept style, and that was the hardest...he he he.
Here is the virtual he made:
Here is a picture of the tree before styling from the top and other views.
Neli- Member
Consideration 5 Planting angle
This is the tree after its first ever styling.
Notice the lowest left branch. It comes from behind. The first structural styling of junipers is done with very few branches...some time one plus the apex...some time two...very rarely more than that. This type of junipers are sold with very few branches...and if they have more...they are cut off very often. I shall give more examples later so it is understood better.
As you decide on the style. Turn the tree around and tilt it in different directions. Decide if it needs a change in planting angle and put something under the tree before styling it so when wiring the branches the angle of the later planting is put into consideration.
Many trees are left in the growing area at the future angle of planting, to grow. It helps the tree to adjust its habit of growing and root direction. Often an empty pot will be used to tilt the tree at the desired angle.
Oyaka stiled this Juniper for Kinbon magazine japan. I shall post a progression later.
Notice that the second right branch needs to be adjusted to a better angle. The second left branch is not yet wired since it is just too small.
In the next post I shall do a post mortum and how this tree was styled and how it will be developed in future.
Notice the lowest left branch. It comes from behind. The first structural styling of junipers is done with very few branches...some time one plus the apex...some time two...very rarely more than that. This type of junipers are sold with very few branches...and if they have more...they are cut off very often. I shall give more examples later so it is understood better.
As you decide on the style. Turn the tree around and tilt it in different directions. Decide if it needs a change in planting angle and put something under the tree before styling it so when wiring the branches the angle of the later planting is put into consideration.
Many trees are left in the growing area at the future angle of planting, to grow. It helps the tree to adjust its habit of growing and root direction. Often an empty pot will be used to tilt the tree at the desired angle.
Oyaka stiled this Juniper for Kinbon magazine japan. I shall post a progression later.
Notice that the second right branch needs to be adjusted to a better angle. The second left branch is not yet wired since it is just too small.
In the next post I shall do a post mortum and how this tree was styled and how it will be developed in future.
Last edited by Neli on Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:27 am; edited 2 times in total
Neli- Member
Consideration 6 Consider the size/view of the tree
Size of the tree will also influence the styling of the tree.
As you know there are close and far view of a tree.
The smaller a bonsai is the further view it will portray.
How is that translated on the tree.
On a small tree: less pads, and less details. All this in most cases is done because the tree is too small to accommodate multiple pads.
As you know there are close and far view of a tree.
The smaller a bonsai is the further view it will portray.
How is that translated on the tree.
On a small tree: less pads, and less details. All this in most cases is done because the tree is too small to accommodate multiple pads.
Neli- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
HI Neli i am very glad u have decided to start a Forum on Junipers we can now learn a lot from this and also from other sourcesNeli wrote:Thank You Fiona, You are a Darling...I dont have from whom to learn here. I am the only one that has bonsai. So I was lucky some friends managed to arrange the apprenticeship for me. I learned a lot, lost 10 kg, he hehe! And my fingers at one point were bleeding from wiring from morning to evening...But it was fantastic. I tried to specialize in junipers and pines only instead learning bits and pieces of everything and ending with nothing at the end..
I am going in July to learn carving from Graham Potter and in Oct to Indonesia Malaysia and Thailand to learn how they do their trees and pads for I find them so different and fascinating.
My main resolution is to come out of the box. Not do the usual stuff but unique and different trees. I find that most of the time creativity also eludes me...I need to be inspired...and I take now a longtime to decide how to style a tree. But if I get inspired...things go smoothly...and I get this feeling that I am on the right truck...I know I am OK.
Just that I forget the inspirations...so Now I bought a printer...all design virtuals are printed and put in a water proof file, that can be carried in the garden.
The problem with me is I am perfectionist...and things bother me if not OK...then I sit and try to figure out what is bothering me and correct it.
Hi Neli It is a great forum you have started here and i know that i am gonna learn a lot about
I know in future what will bother me and chop ruthlessly now so I dont waste time later, after growing it for a long time, and lots of irritation to have to chop again.
For me in bonsai all the fun is about creating...That is the most satisfying part of it.
I like to but prebonsai (just trunks) and go from there.
Horticulturally I am OK since I have had 3 garden centers for close to 30 years,,,but bonsai was news for me. With everything I try to understand things first before I try to remember them. So I hope I shall be OK soon. BTW I did a demo in Japan about pines at the garden fair...for the foreigners. A very small one..on repotting.
George Vrey- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
Thanks very much for your post Neli, it is very useful for many of us, I am looking forward to seeing more in this topic
Best Regards.
Xuan
Best Regards.
Xuan
xuan le- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
Thanks Xuan...I need to finish this article...I have come from Japan with over 20000 pictures, some were on the Ipad some on SD cards...and now everything is so confused that I need to sort them before proceeding as which is before and after...The before pictures look so much the same that I know I will confuse them.
But today I shall do one example hopefully.
The junipers I brought from japan are in confused state still to start styling them and those are the ones I really wanted to use as examples.
Some are growing some have not grown at all since October (our summer)
But today I shall do one example hopefully.
The junipers I brought from japan are in confused state still to start styling them and those are the ones I really wanted to use as examples.
Some are growing some have not grown at all since October (our summer)
Neli- Member
Pads
The next step I shall start with pads. Ones You know how pads are formed, it will be easier to accommodate them within the main design.
What is a pad? Pad is composed of primary branch and secondary branches + foliage on small bonsai and some time tertiary branches in larger bonsai.
How is a pad for made from the beginning of the development of a juniper?
1 You need to grow a branch.
Here are how branches are grown before a juniper is styled.
Try and keep foliage close to the trunk. Make sure it is not shaded because small shoots will die if shaded. But also itoigawa back buds on not extremely old branches when cut back.
Ones the branch is of suitable thickness, at least 5mm you can wire it.
For a branch to set it might need to be wired several times.
In junipers the wire is deliberately left to bite little bit in order to facilitate setting. The wire marks are usually healed within several month.
Just as on any other tree when growing branches from scratch you need to create taper and movement. For that branches are chopped back in ideal situations and new leaders regrown.
The position of the branches will depend on the style chosen...but on that at the end.
What is a pad? Pad is composed of primary branch and secondary branches + foliage on small bonsai and some time tertiary branches in larger bonsai.
How is a pad for made from the beginning of the development of a juniper?
1 You need to grow a branch.
Here are how branches are grown before a juniper is styled.
Try and keep foliage close to the trunk. Make sure it is not shaded because small shoots will die if shaded. But also itoigawa back buds on not extremely old branches when cut back.
Ones the branch is of suitable thickness, at least 5mm you can wire it.
For a branch to set it might need to be wired several times.
In junipers the wire is deliberately left to bite little bit in order to facilitate setting. The wire marks are usually healed within several month.
Just as on any other tree when growing branches from scratch you need to create taper and movement. For that branches are chopped back in ideal situations and new leaders regrown.
The position of the branches will depend on the style chosen...but on that at the end.
Neli- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
Hi Neli, Thank you so much! I'm so inspired by all that you do. I have not had the benefit of formal training and you are one of my favorite teachers. I do not feel worthy to even comment on you tree, it just comes out gagaga. I can say how much I appreciate this gathering of info. Very much! Rick
RKatzin- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
Thanks Rick, I am still a newbie, but I tried hard to learn and had extra benefits: Lost 10 kg in the process,
BTW all pictures used are taken by me in Japan or at home.
BTW all pictures used are taken by me in Japan or at home.
Neli- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
Pads go through several stages of development. Initially you just try to grow and train the primary branches. Ones the primary branches are almost fully developed you can start work on the pads.
At first your tree will look very ugly. But that is how bonsai are. They are ugly ducklings. In order for you to prepare a branch for pad development you need to go through several stages of development.
The post important thing during this process is not to overwork a tree, for health reasons and at the final stages to avoid the dreaded juvenile foliage.
Many times I see on demos branches twisted like snakes to accommodate the foliage into the shape of the pad. That is pure showmanship and I would not do that to my trees when developing pads. Also the trauma through which trees are put through a demo is simply a bad example of what not to do to your tree.
Another problem I had was the impatience of a newbie. Itching to do something on a tree while the tree is not in perfect health for whatever reasons. Junipers should never be rushed.
Pads should be developed slowly and with the future placement of sub branches in mind.
Branches going down are removed, most of the branches facing up are removed also, but I would not rush in doing that since some of those upper branches can be used to create volume on the pad and layering. In general, I dont remove branches too fast unless I am sure I would not need it during the wiring process.
Also in the initial stages of fattening/growing a branch you simply dont remove anything unless to bring light where needed.
If you have a long branch that you need to incorporate in a pad, the best but a long time solution is to cut back the branch, instead of over bending it, and regrow it. Just remember, that you never cut back a branch and leave no healthy foliage on it or chances are that that branch will die . Foliage is needed to produce auxin hormone (and some others like citoxin...whose ratio to the auxin governs the functions of the whole tree) which is the main communicating agent in trees...something similar to our nerves system. Auxin produced by the foliage at the end of the branch gives a signal that food/sap needs to be sent to that area. That is in very simple terms how I understood it, and hope I spelled things OK....not very good in English)
An example of branches being cut back and regrown for taper. Top vertical branch is grown to thicken a future shari.
You must not be concerned with the short term beauty of the tree if you want a fantastic tree. Think long term and patience and diligence will take you there. Some time mistakes are much harder to correct later than at the beginning, and you end up wasting lots of time.
This a pad in need of wiring in its later stage of development
This is a large juniper. Notice the primary secondary and tertiary branches are the main focus of development at the moment. Foliage will be the next step concern in this branch. To achieve that planning is needed from the beginning, and lots of wiring as you can see.
I can not over stress here how important a virtual is at the beginning, in order to plan the size and shape of your pads.
Now I need to go take pictures outside how branches are cut back on larger and smaller trees and how they back bud, so I continue my story on pad formtion.
At first your tree will look very ugly. But that is how bonsai are. They are ugly ducklings. In order for you to prepare a branch for pad development you need to go through several stages of development.
The post important thing during this process is not to overwork a tree, for health reasons and at the final stages to avoid the dreaded juvenile foliage.
Many times I see on demos branches twisted like snakes to accommodate the foliage into the shape of the pad. That is pure showmanship and I would not do that to my trees when developing pads. Also the trauma through which trees are put through a demo is simply a bad example of what not to do to your tree.
Another problem I had was the impatience of a newbie. Itching to do something on a tree while the tree is not in perfect health for whatever reasons. Junipers should never be rushed.
Pads should be developed slowly and with the future placement of sub branches in mind.
Branches going down are removed, most of the branches facing up are removed also, but I would not rush in doing that since some of those upper branches can be used to create volume on the pad and layering. In general, I dont remove branches too fast unless I am sure I would not need it during the wiring process.
Also in the initial stages of fattening/growing a branch you simply dont remove anything unless to bring light where needed.
If you have a long branch that you need to incorporate in a pad, the best but a long time solution is to cut back the branch, instead of over bending it, and regrow it. Just remember, that you never cut back a branch and leave no healthy foliage on it or chances are that that branch will die . Foliage is needed to produce auxin hormone (and some others like citoxin...whose ratio to the auxin governs the functions of the whole tree) which is the main communicating agent in trees...something similar to our nerves system. Auxin produced by the foliage at the end of the branch gives a signal that food/sap needs to be sent to that area. That is in very simple terms how I understood it, and hope I spelled things OK....not very good in English)
An example of branches being cut back and regrown for taper. Top vertical branch is grown to thicken a future shari.
You must not be concerned with the short term beauty of the tree if you want a fantastic tree. Think long term and patience and diligence will take you there. Some time mistakes are much harder to correct later than at the beginning, and you end up wasting lots of time.
This a pad in need of wiring in its later stage of development
This is a large juniper. Notice the primary secondary and tertiary branches are the main focus of development at the moment. Foliage will be the next step concern in this branch. To achieve that planning is needed from the beginning, and lots of wiring as you can see.
I can not over stress here how important a virtual is at the beginning, in order to plan the size and shape of your pads.
Now I need to go take pictures outside how branches are cut back on larger and smaller trees and how they back bud, so I continue my story on pad formtion.
Neli- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
A Juniper in second stage of pad development...Primary branches have been cut back and secondary branches are developed at this stage.
Some primary branches (Higher left) are still grown and not yet cut back.
Some primary branches (Higher left) are still grown and not yet cut back.
Neli- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
And remember we are talking large junipers pad formation...Small ones also have pads but they are hard to discern and there you are mostly concerned with the overall shape of the tree.
Neli- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
This is excellent work Neli and the photographs are fantastic. I particularly like the small trees in your most recent update.....Well done.
robert nocher- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
Some of my photographs are atrocious Robert. They can not compare to yours at all. BTW I also like my bonsai small, but apart from mame and shohin I have few big bonsai also. Oyakata used to grow gardenias at Taisho en so on some days I used to trim and wire over 20...so I can spot a gardenia from Japan from a mile
I took some pictures of my junipers in the garden yesterday...I have around 24 itoigawa in different sizes....not too sure. I plan to style some of them for this thread, but for some or even most of them the time is not right yet.
I had a strange experience with my plants. Some think it is spring and some think itis autumn, so I am not too sure if some junipers dont fall in the same category, so I feel it is better to wait and observe how they grow first, see if they are growing well and then style.
I took some pictures of my junipers in the garden yesterday...I have around 24 itoigawa in different sizes....not too sure. I plan to style some of them for this thread, but for some or even most of them the time is not right yet.
I had a strange experience with my plants. Some think it is spring and some think itis autumn, so I am not too sure if some junipers dont fall in the same category, so I feel it is better to wait and observe how they grow first, see if they are growing well and then style.
Neli- Member
Re: Juniper Itoigawa
I have itoigawa from different places and what I have noticed is they have some subtle differences in the color of the foliage. Some are really green and some more bluish or different darker shade of green.
But one thing is for sure some have grown and some have not grown at all.
I must be honest and tell the truth. I styled one and prestyled another...this two junipers have not grown at all.
This is one of the junipers I prestyled (first styling) Note that there is no growth at all. This juniper was simply styled too soon for its own good. I did not cut almost any foliage just tried to set the branches into position.
This one also has very little signs of growth though the foliage looks healthy:
But one thing is for sure some have grown and some have not grown at all.
I must be honest and tell the truth. I styled one and prestyled another...this two junipers have not grown at all.
This is one of the junipers I prestyled (first styling) Note that there is no growth at all. This juniper was simply styled too soon for its own good. I did not cut almost any foliage just tried to set the branches into position.
This one also has very little signs of growth though the foliage looks healthy:
Neli- Member
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Similar topics
» Itoigawa juniper
» Itoigawa Juniper Styling
» Juniperus Itoigawa
» juniper itoigawa de-wired
» Shohin Itoigawa Juniper (first styling)
» Itoigawa Juniper Styling
» Juniperus Itoigawa
» juniper itoigawa de-wired
» Shohin Itoigawa Juniper (first styling)
Page 1 of 3
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
|
|