Ulmus Parvifolia

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Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  quatrefi on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:47 pm

Here's an Ulmus Parvifolia (chinese elm in english?) that i've been working on for four years.
First picture in 2009.
Second and first pictures last autumn, and last ones after a new shaping.






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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  quatrefi on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:51 pm

The front would be the first of these last picture (that's how i worked it) but i'm still hesitating a little bit...
Thanks for your comments!










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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  mumra on Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:22 pm

That looks like a good size trunk you have there and I like where it is going. For me... I like the more natural deciduous tree look for branches, on deciduous trees, rather than the downward sweep that you see on pine trees. With this in mind I would have the branches going initially up, then down and then up again at the ends where the new growth is. I also think I prefer the last picture for a front but I expect it looks very different when actually in front of you than when seen in a picture.

This is just my opinion though and I do like the look of this material. It certainly has a lot of prospects.

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  JimLewis on Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:17 pm

Well done. Size?

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  Richard S on Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:10 pm

Wow, great piece of material there. Shaping up nicely.

Ordinarily I'd be inclined to agree with Mumra about the naturalistic style for deciduous trees but in this case the trunks are so naturally dramatic that a more fantasy/grotesque (in a good way) style seems appropriate.

Please keep us updated.

Regards

Richard

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  arihato on Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:31 pm

Normally I would go for 'Elm natural', but with the tortured look of the trunks, these branches harmonise very expressively. I do like it a lot.

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  Floris on Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:39 am

Really impressive and I like this styling.

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  GerhardGerber on Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:17 am

Hi

Love the tree, please post new pics when it leafs out.

The shots with the fall colour are my favorites, but looking at them I feel like I want to see more of the base of the tree than is visible when in leaf.

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  quatrefi on Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:10 pm

Hello thanks for your comments  Very Happy i'm waiting for the leaves to come to take new pictures, and i'll transpot it in a new (or maybe the same temporarily) pot for it to have the right front.
For the size it's 40-50 cm high (without the pot).

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:07 pm

Very nice transformation!

Its Amazing that this kind of design you always find in France, its your own personal style me thinks.

Do you have a name for this type of style? It looks like Witches broom!

Well done Quatrefi

Love and light

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  quatrefi on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:41 am

Hello, Andre.
Yes in France we've got this kind of design that was pushed further by Herve Dora and Laurent Darrieux (Known as Vev and Law) that sometimes show their work on this forum. They were themselves influenced by Barber : http://www.bonsai-bordeaux.com/ a bonsaï shop in Bordeaux who used to create trees with this kind of design, using a lot of scarification (on elms for example) and a lot of movement in the branches too. They were also influenced by Taiwanese bonsaï style, a specific style, giving extreme movement in the trunk and the branches shape (like Min Hsuan Lo for example) http://min-hsuan-lo.ofbonsai.org/2012/10/03/please-visit-my-new-blog/ and proposing an alternative to the Japanese classic style*
*in fact i've been a lot of times in Japan and the japanese style is not always classic, you can see a lot of different styles including sometimes this "fantastic" styling.
This style is sometime called "style fantastique" in France or "Burton style" as reference to Tim Burton trees in movies Wink
I use it myself sometimes, trying to adapt it my way for some strange trees that deserve that kind of styling.

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  quatrefi on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:52 am

Here you can see a post done by Vev on the taiwanese style : http://www.espritsdegoshin.fr/forum-bonsai/topic.html?id=12583

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  brett2013 on Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:31 pm

Richard S wrote:Wow, great piece of material there. Shaping up nicely.

Ordinarily I'd be inclined to agree with Mumra about the naturalistic style for deciduous trees but in this case the trunks are so naturally dramatic that a more fantasy/grotesque (in a good way) style seems appropriate.

Please keep us updated.

Regards

Richard

I like it a lot, you nailed it, dramatic and grotesque, in a beautiful way

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  brett2013 on Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:32 pm

Indeed, a tree out of a Tim Burton movie ... lovely

quatrefi wrote:Hello, Andre.
Yes in France we've got this kind of design that was pushed further by Herve Dora and Laurent Darrieux (Known as Vev and Law) that sometimes show their work on this forum. They were themselves influenced by Barber : http://www.bonsai-bordeaux.com/ a bonsaï shop in Bordeaux who used to create trees with this kind of design, using a lot of scarification (on elms for example) and a lot of movement in the branches too. They were also influenced by Taiwanese bonsaï style, a specific style, giving extreme movement in the trunk and the branches shape (like Min Hsuan Lo for example) http://min-hsuan-lo.ofbonsai.org/2012/10/03/please-visit-my-new-blog/ and proposing an alternative to the Japanese classic style*
*in fact i've been a lot of times in Japan and the japanese style is not always classic, you can see a lot of different styles including sometimes this "fantastic" styling.
This style is sometime called "style fantastique" in France or "Burton style" as  reference to Tim Burton trees in movies Wink
I use it myself sometimes, trying to adapt it my way for some strange trees that deserve that kind of styling.

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  AlainK on Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:06 pm

Good.

Probably even better when the overall shape is determined, when you have got rid of the wiring, walked away from this "style" and pay more attention to what we can learn from the Lingnan style.

But when in Rome, do as the Romans do: de coloribus et gustibus non disputandum Wink

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  vev on Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:59 pm

the burton style....

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  Guest on Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:57 am

Oh, yes...the Burton style  Cool 

Thanks for sharing

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  AlainK on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:56 pm

I have a big Corylus avellana 'contorta' and a couple of Salix x erythroflexuosa: are they eligible for this "style"?

If so, that would save a lot of trouble and have the same result: a contorted tree, with no shape when in leaves but spectacular in the winter for much, much less effort and tortures.

I must repot it though, because there aren't many catkins this winter, and the contrast between their vertical straight lines are a perfect match to the twisted branches.

I think will airlayer it, so I can get a reputation in the micocosm of bonsai from my creativeness, sell the clones on Ebay, and buy something worth working with, even if that takes years  Laughing 



See: no scars, healthy bark, and a natural look.

And as for its natural look in summer, it's naturally messy. So why bother with other species?...

PS: and if I do, I would certainly not choose to name it with an English name: I know that outside the Anglo world using English (like on garments) is a selling argument, if not a lack of imagination. I'd rather call it "style tordu" because "tordu" (twisted) has a lot of different meanings that to me cover the semantics of this "style"...

I think that some very savvy bonsai artists are wasting their talent on such tricks. some get stuck in their pre-teen years  Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  vev on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:15 am

et pourquoi pas faire du bonsai avec des arbustes nains, comme ça plus rien à faire.
comme d'habitude des remarques très constructives.

and why not do bonsai with dwarf shrubs, as it nothing more to do.
as usual very constructive remarks.

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  quatrefi on Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:31 pm

Hello Alain.
The style that Hervé creates has nothing to do with nature, it's all about Art. He explained it to me, he doesn't want his trees to look like natural trees, on the contrary he wants them to be abstract pieces of art. Let's respect his work (very very interesting an unique in my point of view). There's no point in arguing, as any respectable piece of art, you like it or not...
But we're far from my tree anyway, who's styled differently. My intention was to make this tree look like a strange natural tree, even if i add a little piece of Herve's approach in the construction of the branches.
I think that i'm trying to be in the middle of the process, strange bizarre nature, and an artistic approach too...

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  Richard S on Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:37 pm

I think you are succeeding admirably! Keep up the good work.

Regards

Richard

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  AlainK on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:09 pm

quatrefi wrote:Hello Alain.
The style that Hervé creates has nothing to do with nature, it's all about Art. He explained it to me, he doesn't want his trees to look like natural trees, on the contrary he wants them to be abstract pieces of art. Let's respect his work (very very interesting an unique in my point of view). There's no point in arguing, as any respectable piece of art, you like it or not...
But we're far from my tree anyway, who's styled differently. My intention was to make this tree look like a strange natural tree, even if i add a little piece of Herve's approach in the construction of the branches.
I think that i'm trying to be in the middle of the process, strange bizarre nature, and an artistic approach too...

Salut Quatrefi,

I respect both of you, and I even find some interest in this approach too.

But if you say it's art, well, what if a form of art forbids any critical point of view?

I won't take the example of painting, often used in such discussions, but since I'm reading Shakespeare again at the moment, let me say that I find Orson Welles's 1948 movie a hundred times superior to Roman Polanski's adaptation of 30 years later. I consider them both as great film directors, and they both made masterpieces and... minor works. The same with the old bard: "Anthony and Cleopatra" is sooo boring compared to other of his plays.

I'm just expressing a point of view I've already stated, but admit it was jocular, and a wee bit ironical.

But let's be serious for a moment. The Chinese achieve similar things with other techniques. I won't mention a Chinese Indonesian bonsaï amateur either (and "amateur" to me is a compliment).

Have a look at some of the links there for example (some seem to be dead, but I spend less and less time on the web):

http://krizic.eu/bonsai/bdb/wakka.php?wiki=BonsaiChinois

I hope this is a constructive message  Smile  -Ooops, I did it again  Embarassed


Last edited by AlainK on Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  quatrefi on Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:52 am

Hello Alain, your exemple goes my way.

There are pieces of art you don't like but you don't critic the process.
A true sincere process of work (you can easily see that a process is sincere, there's work there's energy) has it's own life, some like it some not, and only the creator can redirect it, change the way, go in other directions, that's his problem...   
I don't say that remarks don't influence this process, but i mean always the  same remark for ever and ever Very Happy 

Well maybe we're far from bonsaï.

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Re: Ulmus Parvifolia

Post  quatrefi on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:17 pm

Hello here he is, with his new leaves!


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