Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Guest on Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:56 pm

Richard S wrote:"People" are a strange bunch for sure so I guess anything is possible but.......................if your worried about your work becoming too well known why enter it into a major show?


YUP!

And the more exposure the the tree gets the more interests it will create and the more interested buyer you have the higher the price will be...it is a simple supply and demand thing.

regards,
jun  Smile

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code red

Post  dorothy7774 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:23 am

Tony wrote:..

I took down the video out of respect for a German friend who contacted me personally...NO OTHER REASON, so lets not have any conspiracy theories shall we!

That was the best "Bonsai" video I have seen in years! Showing no sense of humor is scary to me. In the end humor is the best way to stay out of trouble, isn't it..oh well.. too late.. Very Happy 

We respect your decision, Tony( I saved it, ha!)

Best,
Dorothy

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  brett2013 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:52 am

Kev Bailey wrote:"Not on web – why?
Bonsai amateurs and professionals invest a huge amount of time to create their piece of art.
We all have to respect their view and taste for bonsai."

I know that some artists are reluctant to allow photography of their trees, especially if the owner's identity is revealed, due to the increasing incidence of theft of valuable specimens. Also some artists are reluctant to allow their creations to be photographed because once they are "known" by all for free, over the internet, their value is "lessened" for showing in future. I have been asked not to take photo's on two occasions by a well known bonsai artist. The majority howevever are happy or even flattered that you are interested enough in their work to want to have a record.


They should be happy it is being photographed ... I would Smile.  Maybe those who think the value will be lessened is because it's not good enough.  The better it is, the more people will covet it, especially if they see it a lot ...

One can photograph the "Mona Lisa" and other great works of art (without flash) ...

On the other hand, it will be in the book, so does that lessen the value as it was photographed ?  Anyway, the organizers have to pay the book publisher and the photographers, so no casual photography increases the chance to break even

This reminds me of one time I visited a maharajah's palace in Karnathaka, India. Truly beautiful palace interior, but no photography, we had to buy them at the exit ...

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:45 am

Gosh,

you all got the answer a while back - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Selling the exhibition book [ I have one ].

No need for the long commentary/discussion.

Hate when folk try to turn a simple hobby, into something else, the trees out grow the designs, and the designers get say 20 years of notoriety, and are replaced, with some other folk and so on. Like I said, you need holograms.

A beautiful tree, can be exhibited over and over and over, but the design won't last, and it has to be re-newed every 3 to 5 years. A sisyphusian task.
Laters.
Khaimraj

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  coh on Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:31 pm

Since I've never been to Noelanders, I can't say whether the photo-taking during the show is a problem or not. However...I have been to the last 2 National Exhibitions in Rochester, where photos are also not permitted. I don't think it's ever been so crowded that I thought people taking photographs would create much of a problem. Maybe in the future, if crowds grow, who knows.

As for the $ issue, selling albums, etc - I've got the albums from the national shows and the photos are beautiful - much better than most (probably anyone) could do during the show itself. No shadows, black background, everything in focus with great lighting and color. So I'm pretty sure that even if I could take photos, I'd still purchase the album. I wonder if allowing photos would really significantly impact the sales of the album...

Chris

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Penjing37 on Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:59 pm

I've been to all the last Noelanders since 10 years and taken a lot of pictures...But I've also bought all the books.

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Noelanders "no photo,s"

Post  alex e on Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:10 pm

I think most of us remember the " no photos" policy applied at the Danny Use "Ginko" gig and its enforcement to the extreme, my understanding as to the reasoning was "it was to encourage the future sales of the official show publication"!!!

Alex e Bagpiper 

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  sunip on Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:27 pm

www.petit-arbre.com/noelanders-trophy-first-photos

There will be more on the internet i hope, because this nice special selection represents not really the many interesting trees.
A few where allowed to take pictures before and after opening hours.

Sunip


Last edited by sunip on Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  sunip on Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:52 am

http://www.petit-arbre.com/noelanders-t...014-winner
Search for: winner noelanders 2014
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxvXOP8p92s
or
only for those who have access to the German
www.bonsai-fachforum.de/
there are good pictures of the show but it is not allowed to give a direct link
pictures are not allowed to be shown outside this forum.

I must say, without all taking pictures, the atmosphere was relaxed, this combined with
having access to some professional pictures like those on the German forum i really can live.
There was an outstanding quality offered on the market as well.
One of this years winners .
Olea from Erasmo Garcia


Sunip

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Penjing37 on Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:30 am

https://www.facebook.com/philippe.massard.9

But hurry up : They will soon be deleted because threats of the organizers

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Peter E. on Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:14 pm


A member on a German forum was given permission to take and publish photographs.

http://www.bonsai-fachforum.de/viewtopi ... 10&t=37935

This came via of a fellow bonsai member.

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Xavier de Lapeyre on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:16 am

Peter,
Bad link Smile
I think this is what you wanted to post : http://www.bonsai-fachforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=37935

Other links that popped up:
Jan Culek : http://akirabonsai.blogspot.com/2014/01/noelanders-trophy-xv.html
Walter Pall : http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2014/01/back-from-noelanders-trophy.html

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Peter E. on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:30 pm

thanks for sorting the problem Xavier.
Must have had a senior moment. Embarassed 

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:49 am

Ha ha ha,

Good technique, learnt from Modern Art, create controversy, and it lends importance to the situation.
- MADE YOU LOOK !!! - they did.

Bonsai - Garden Craft -------------- not ART
Laters.
Khaimraj

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Hans van Meer. on Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:13 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:
Bonsai - Garden Craft -------------- not ART
Laters.
Khaimraj

There it is again, and people wonder why things have gone so quiet here on IBC! Don't call some ones art and lives passion a craft just because you so clearly don't have any talent for it! You are just very disappointed in what you just dont understand and it is about time you did stop this art form that you so obvious dislike and look down upon! High horses and fine art bladiebla die bla. Bah! Mad
Hans.

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:00 pm

Bonsai - Garden Craft -------------- not ART
Laters.
Khaimraj[/quote]

It is not the first time I see you have a boring arrogant point of view on other peoples art ( paintings) and bonsai
Why not just look at your own paintings, and make some tomatoes instead of bonsai, like you already have promised us.

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:18 pm

I was about to Ask Khaimraj (LLB) about that issue of his. in a nicer way. but I can't find a word. but the two (Guy and Gal)before me asked it already in a passionate way. 

Why Khaimraj? Why?

May I add,,,This ART form is not for everybody. This is not like painting that anybody can learn, that if you just get a colored pen or ink or even coal that you can put on a paper or wall ,you can call it a nice art no matter how ugly it was. Bonsai is much deeper than that, and believe me I also do painting, sculpture and architecture, they can be learned by any body but clearly in bonsai it is not the case. I am sorry to be honest, it may sound harsh to some.

regards,
jun

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  adam1234 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:05 pm

Hi,

  I loved the noelander's trophy trees which I've seen on the links but particularly liked the artistic bonsai display of Tony's and was in my opinion very thoughtful and full of meaning.
The line of the tree is calligraphic, the pot complements the tree and gives it a springy look like I feel that the tree has jumped out from the books, appropriately chosen, and themselves describing the tree's origins. This could well mean lots if looked into deeply and is very poetic. The accent just elevates the poetic and artistic feel of the composition. For some may see nothing but to me and me mate William Blake "The tree which moves some to tears of joy is in the eyes of others only a green thing which stands in their way."


If I were to include a little something in the way of a hanging to accompany the tree it could perhaps be the beautiful words of Leonora Speyer:

"The trees are God's great alphabet:
With them He writes in shining green
Across the world His thoughts serene."


Cheers Tony!!

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Xavier de Lapeyre on Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:05 pm

Adam,
I second that!
The Taxus baccata that Tony displayed in Erik Krizovensky's pot caught my eye.
The tree's calligraphic trunk line was mesmerizing.
The dislay making use of books kind of highlighted a calligraphic sense to the picture in my eyes.
Not sure if you've seen it, but the two fude and the suzuri used as accents instead of a shitakusa or suiseki completed a calligraphic themed scene for me.
Too bad there was no sumi sticks.

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  adam1234 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:27 pm

Hi Xavier,

  I noticed that Xavier with the accent. To make the display other worldly, an incense burner could be lit and used as an accent. Agarwood would nicely fill the room intoxicating the viewer and the smoke rising making shapes would be magical. To us celts the yew has always been symbolic and referred to spiritually since ancient times. I also see the tree writing something in the arabic script. For example, the initial rise of the trunk with the join to the fall is L in the arabic alphabet, the bend is H and the foliage is M. These are the three letters Lam, Haa and Mim. These combined LHM - Lahm means flesh in arabic. This is contrary to the appearance since the tree is mostly skinny but the writing describes a metaphore. Like I said, lots of meaning could be derived but the composition to me was very tasteful.

Cheers,
Adam

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Peter E. on Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:37 pm

Xavier de Lapeyre wrote:
Too bad there was no sumi sticks.

Xavier,
i also have thought about using " sumi " as part of a display for Literati trees.

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:27 pm

My point proven L.L.B,

be controversial and you get a response. Now everyone will remember my name, be nice and ........... snooze.

To the silly other nay sayers, I am the one that advocates, 3d reproduction, so that Bonsai of quality can be seen forever, at their highest point in a MUSEUM.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it ----------- ha ha ha -------- laughing at you.

Whanna see I do it and you just keep on yakking.
As was remarked to Anthony by Owen Reich [ another Bonsai specialist coming out of Japan ] - you use a refrigerator, your love of Bonsai is impressive - See B.S.G.
Laters oh gullible ones.
Khaimraj

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  marcus watts on Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:14 am

talking to many regulars it was one of the highest standard Noelanders shows ever, and it was excellent to be there in person to appreciate the trees in 3 dimensions. not one of the 'on bench' online pictures does the real trees justice anyway so trying to enforce no pictures is a way to preserve the quality of the show and the exhibits. All the rubbish about the rule being to sell books.....the book isnt out for many months after the show anyway and people that think this was the reasoning for the rule wouldn't be the ones to buy it anyway. It sells to genuinely interested exhibitors, attendants, collectors and serious show people rather than people who would be satisfied with a few shadowy small resolution online snaps.

The authorised photographers were taking pictures at the less busy times and this made no impact on the enjoyment for the majority either - I think the decision was absolutely fine, worked well, and has not detracted from the show in any way. As one of the tree owners I'm glad there are not loads of poor quality images floating around online and that the ones out there are good enough to do our work justice.

quite often debates like this get fuelled by individuals who had no intention of attending the events for real too........pointless typing just for the sake of it...desperation or just boredom ?

Great show, great memories, thats what counts

Marcus


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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:27 am

Actually Marcus,

joking and teasing put aside, the correct response was very simple and has been expressed before on IBC.

If a group wishes to display, it is done under their rules. You as the individual, may not agree, but to participate, the rules are there. Choice - to follow or not, attend or not.
There is no point to putting it on the Internet, like dirty laundry.

I leave with this - What is Art?

Art is Beauty, Beauty unhidden.
Art is anything that makes you contemplate, as in strong deep memories, or universal ideas.

History decides what is Art.
Art can last, by having universal ideas that easily span time.

Now I must wait more than months for the Exhibition copy, because I am cheap, and am looking for a second hand copy off of Amazon. Not much else I can do, the English Pound is now 11 times our $.
Ah, the cost of enjoyment.
Laters.
Khaimraj

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

Post  dick benbow on Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:14 pm

I'd like to be able to see a list of the owner's names for prize winning bonsai. Is there an Url available. Looking to see how my Friend Mark Cooper did......

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Re: Noelanders Trophy 2014 won't allow Photography

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