Who does cuttings?

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Who does cuttings?

Post  LittleJoe on Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:57 pm

I've purchased a Red Dragon Japanese Maple. I really want to try this for a bonsai, but I don't want to use a grafted specimen. I am going to try to propagate with cuttings.

So tell me. What rooting hormone do you use, and potting mix. Help me with your secrets, even if your only willing to pm them to me alien 

I know it's going to be a challenge, and could take a very long time, but I'm looking forward to it.

Thank you,
Joe

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  appalachianOwl on Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:03 pm

from what I remember, folks say that a cutting from graft specimen wont produce viable roots. hope someone can deny/confirm this more thoroughly for you. good luck either way sir.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  hawthorn on Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:39 pm

Some grafted cultivars will root, not sure about the one you own, you would be better off air layering the tree.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  hawthorn on Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:43 pm

I've had the best results when new growth begins to harden off (semi ripe) with hormone.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  Todd Ellis on Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:32 pm

Find a nursery that propagates Japanese Maples and ask them which varieties have good "cutting" potential. They should be able to suggest what might work. I have some "Hime" varieties which I have successfully air layered. Theoretically, something which air layer wells, will also root from cuttings. I will be able to see this year if I have some viable cuttings; the ones who survived the Winter...

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  JimLewis on Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:22 pm

Japanese maples in general are fairly hard to propagate reliably from cuttings.  I hadn't heard -- and can think of no viable reason why -- that "grafted cultivars" would not root; they're all Acer palmatum, after all.  

I have used basic Rootone powder, and sand or the finer sifting from Turface to root small (matchstick-sized) cuttings of the laceleaf varieties in early to late spring, but these require more patience than I can manage to grow into anything that can be turned into a legitimate bonsai.  I have rooted slightly larger cuttings of the basic Japanese maples with green leaves, and they seem to be much easier.

This is from a cutting. It was 8 years old at the time of the picture.



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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  arihato on Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:50 pm

Acer palmatum are grafted because that is the most reliable way of propagation (think 10.000 and more), taking cuttings is much more time consuming and labour intensive, so less cost effective.

Some ssp of palmatum root easily some are difficult, you will have to try for yourself and take cutting all through the year, so you cover all your options.
Bottom heat help, transparent covering helps, misting helps, good drainage helps............ etc.

And sometime nothing works............ Rolling Eyes 

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:16 am

arihato wrote:Acer palmatum are grafted because that is the most reliable way of propagation (think 10.000 and more), taking cuttings is much more time consuming and labour intensive, so less cost effective.

Some ssp of palmatum root easily some are difficult, you will have to try for yourself and take cutting all through the year, so you cover all your options.
Bottom heat help, transparent covering helps, misting helps, good drainage helps............ etc.

And sometime nothing works............ Rolling Eyes 


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  LittleJoe on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:52 am

Thank you everyone for your replies.

Jim,
I think that's a very nice tree, and hopefully I have a little more patience since I know I'll need it.

Arihato and Russell,
It's not about being cost effective, it's about purity of the species. I don't want a graft on my bonsai so I am willing to try and do what I can to avoid it. I have a vision in my head that will only start with a pure, small, Red Dragon. I figure I've only got about 20-25 years left on this blue marble, but you have to start somewhere.

I will be receiving 2 tree's, So I'm hoping seedlings are a possibility also.

I know I'm a newb and I'm okay with that. Sometimes not knowing you shouldn't or couldn't do something, works to your advantage.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  arihato on Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:33 pm

This is a cutting I made in 1989


IMG_1041 by Arihato, on Flickr

It is possible with some species, just keep on trying different times and different ways and make as much cuttings as possible.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:59 pm

LittleJoe wrote:Arihato and Russell,
It's not about being cost effective, it's about purity of the species. I don't want a graft on my bonsai so I am willing to try and do what I can to avoid it. I have a vision in my head that will only start with a pure, small, Red Dragon.

I totally understand where you're coming from... I think we were actually trying to put a stop to AppOwl's misconception before that became an internet "fact" (no insult implied). Some root easily, others not so much. Some are fine on their own roots, and some greatly benefit from a stronger understockstock. And, yes, grafting is the preferred method in the nursery trade with named cultivars for the reasons already stated.

R

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  MichaelJ on Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:43 pm

hawthorn wrote:Some grafted cultivars will root, not sure about the one you own, you would be better off air layering the tree.

I'd never heard this before. Does anyone know why a branch off a grafted tree would be unable to root?

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  arihato on Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:14 pm

It has nothing to do with it being grafted or not. It is just that it may be very difficult to get some ssp of Acer to root.

New cultivars are often odd branches on older trees, that branch is taken and grafted onto a rootstock because that gives the best chance of a healthy tree. It is just the way commercial nurseries use the stock available.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:37 am



Good lord, I give up.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  john jones on Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:23 am

Russell Coker wrote:

Good lord, I give up.

That would be a most unfortunate turn of events.  I have some questions,  if you're able to help.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:26 pm

Arihato and I have answered the question about viability with what I thought were pretty detailed explanations as to how and why.  I can't help it if people don't read it... and the answer doesn't change when the question is asked a different way.
 
As for what rooting hormone to use, potting mix, etc I hope somehow with propagation skills will chime in.


Last edited by Russell Coker on Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  GerhardGerber on Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:58 pm

Bottom heat help, transparent covering helps, misting helps, good drainage helps............ etc.

.....In a nutshell!  Cool 

I can't help it if people don't read it...
Most likely I should simply refrain from saying anything, but I feel your pain, and I see people in the know that stop answering because they grow tired of repeating everything..  Suspect 

 study  I consider "RTFM" a valid answer in many cases.....


6 1cm Zelkova cuttings in 1mm sand with wire frame and plastic bag humidity tent  Very Happy 

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  JimLewis on Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:44 pm

And, in this case the "F"-ing Manual could well be: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/hil/hil-8702.html
which is one of the excellent bits of info available to anyone who makes the effort to Google for "plant propagation."

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  LittleJoe on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:02 pm

JimLewis wrote:And, in this case the "F"-ing Manual could well be:  http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/hil/hil-8702.html
which is one of the excellent bits of info available to anyone who makes the effort to Google for "plant propagation."

I did that before I posted, even have that link saved along with about 5 others. I was simply asking the community if they've had success, and if so. Did they have any secrets they'ed be willing to share. I'm not sure this is directed at me. So, if not. Kindly disregard Embarassed

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  Bonsaiteen on Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:50 am

The root stock should be able to root better than the top. Why not cut the ring of bark right below the grafting callus?

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  arihato on Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:31 am

That would work IF the graft was acceptable. When the graft is too unsightly you can airlayer on the graft union, or in the worst case above the graft.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

Post  RegnarBonsai on Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:14 am

I suggest looking on evergreengardenworks.com his business is selling cuttings including many varieties of Acer palmatum. He recommends bottom heat, transparent cover, misting exe. And wounding with a shallow dip of Hormex #30. In a mixture of pearlite and peat 5part to 1part if I remember right. There is a article on taking cuttings from various plants for Bonsai.
Hope that helps.

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Re: Who does cuttings?

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