A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

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A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:13 pm

Been testing this tree type for a while - Maclura t. also [ Chlorophora tinctoria ]
Has leaves similar to a Zelkova, papery thin, and reduces very well.
Has a milky sap and small thorns and I believe it is a member in the Mulberry family.
Hard bright yellow heartwood.
Easy to grow, you just have to take into account it goes dormant around Christmas and will drop it's leaves.

Should be spending the year, once again thickening the the first branch, in the pot, I don't want to ground grow this and lose all of the fine branching, but we will see.

Feel free to comment nay or yay.

Enjoy.
Happy New Year.
Khaimraj

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  JimLewis on Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:08 pm

Yours is the only other Maclura species I've seen as bonsai. Mine (Osage orange) is a temperate species, Maclura pomifera, but both seem to have very hard, brightly colored wood (mine, orange; yours yellow). The bark on mine is pale orange and has longitudinal fissures, while yours seems to be greenish with horizontal lines.

I'm surprised it (Maclura) isn't used more often for bonsai because as you say it is a very bonsaiable genus. I suspect it is because of the nasty little spines. There seems to be at least one Maclura species on every continent except Europe. Wonder how they got left out.

Personally, with yours, I'd just as soon see that first branch gone. It's too straight and stiff looking, and at that size would be unbendable. Even cutting it where it first branches leaves quite a length of straight wood. Maybe, though, keeping it for a while will help develop a bit of taper in the trunk.

Do those grow wild in Trinidad? What is the fruit like on your species?

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:21 pm

JimLewis wrote:I'm surprised it (Maclura) isn't used more often for bonsai because as you say it is a very bonsaiable genus.  I suspect it is because of the nasty little spines.  There seems to be at least one Maclura species on every continent except Europe.  Wonder how they got left out.

I read somewhere that the mountain ranges across Europe trapped and doomed many plants represented in North America and Asia by Ice Age sheet ice. They weren't able to move populations north and south over time like they did here. This article was about Magnolias specifically, which are also absent from Europe.

Khaimraj, it's always a treat to see that you're working on. These are really cool!

R

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Jerry Meislik on Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:35 pm

Khaimraj,
A lovely tree with great delicate branching.
I too would lose the bottom branch. I don't think it adds to the design.
Jerry

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  David Brunner on Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:54 pm

Hello Khaimraj, Jim and Russell –

Thank you for posting this Khaimraj – a very nice tree. I think in time it will become a very fine broom-style. Personally I think the lowest branch is a bit distracting, but I’m am certain that you have a plan for it over time.

I agree with Jim that Maclura and Chlorofora are underused in bonsai. The leaves can be quite large, but Jim has shown us through multiple posts on IBC that Maclura pomifera can be a great bonsai subject – and it is quite common throughout much of North America (in fact sometimes thought of as a weed) so easily accessible for collection to many!

Russell – you postulate a European geographical barrier to the dispersion of species within the Moraceae (the family which includes Maclura, Cholofora and Ficus (figs) among many others) based upon the distribution of Magnolias. There is genetic evidence that the Moraceae evolved prior to the breakup of Gondwanaland (which subsequently formed the current southern continents). However, it is also interesting to observe that this is likely long after the appearance of Magnolias which first arose on the then continent of Pangaea (the super-continent which gave rise to Gondwanaland (the great southern continent) and Eurasia (the great northern continent)). If this is true, and both genetic and species biogeography suggest it is, then the Moraceae are much later arrivals than the Magnolias and arose first in the southern hemisphere dispersing as they could to continents in the north. The absence of most Moraceae from Europe is more likely due to oceanic distance rather than mountainous migratory barriers.

Jim – you state that there are species of Maclura on every continent except Europe. In a historical context you are quite right, however the actual taxonomy and phylogeny of Maclura is unclear at best. It may be that Maclura is isolated to the Americas and perhaps even North America. I have not been in taxonomic circles for a long time, so my information may be quite old, apologies if this misinforms! There are Maclura-like species in Central and South America (Chlorophora) as well as in Australia and Southeastern Asia. Each of these species has been assigned to various genera including Maclura, but where they actually reside in the phylogeny of Moraceae remains a subject for further research (at least as far as my current understanding extends).

I hope you all will pardon me for this digression, but biogeography is something I find very interesting. Perhaps one of two of you do as well – to all the rest, I ask for your longsuffering!

In the end – thank you Khaimraj for the evocative image!
David B.

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A tropical version of the zelkova

Post  moyogijohn on Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:25 am

Khaimraj,, That is a very nice tree !! good trunk and the branching looks great.. I too am thinking of the low branch though..have you hide it and looked at the tree with out it ??? any way you have a good tree..take care john

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Nigel Parke on Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:24 am

Khaimraj,

Happy New Year to you and your family.

Firstly, I like the new tape measure even though I miss seeing the older more mature one  Very Happy 

I like this tree very much, as usual its great to see what you've been working on in your bonsai lab like a mad scientist  Mad 
We should have this tree on our side, I am familiar with a plant known here as 'fustic' but I'm not sure if its the same as this one you've shown, will make some checks, in any event if you have seeds I'm always willing to plant  Very Happy 

If I may offer an opinion, I do agree that the first branch is too long and straight but I don't think it has to go. Does it backbud well? If so you could cut it back to halfway the distance between the trunk and the first branchlet and develop the new pad from there.

Look forward to seeing the future development of this one.

Regards,
Nigel


Last edited by Nigel Parke on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  JimLewis on Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:06 pm

I hope you all will pardon me for this digression, but biogeography is something I find very interesting.

Me too, though my knowledge is cursory at best.

Nigel: At least for M. pomifera (Osage Orange) it does backbud, but seldom where you want it to.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:02 pm

Hi Khaimraj

A nice tree from you again....many thanks for sharing.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:22 am

Thanks Guys and Gal, for the interest.

I am going to use the lower branch for extension and trunk thickening. If after I hit say 2" [ 5 cm ] as a trunk, and the branch does not work, it will be removed. Trying to save all the work on the other branches, and checking for greater density.

Russell, it is always good see you around, and not on uggh - Facebook [ teasing chuckle ] Interesting facts, and thanks to David, for the fascinating additional information. I am just glad I did enough Geography to be able to follow along.

Jim, I really never put two and two together and realised that your mock orange is in the same family as the fustic - I am so dense.

Nigel, I prune this tree, like all the other trees. As long as you fertilise a month before, you get normal budding, nothing out of the ordinary. There are two leaf types, one looks like a normal leaf and the other has what looks like a bite taken out of it. I tend to prefer the normal leaf. These are both weed trees on my side. All of the victims, are with the exception of two, weeds removed from the yard in Mayaro. The other two are from a fence, and a friend's drain. You should be able to jumpstart with a 3" [ 7.5 cm ] stump.

The root structure is also very beautiful and easily to arrange, since there are normally so many rootlets.
Happy hunting.

Yvonne, yet another being tested with a simple mix, evolved from your ideas. As usual, thank you.

Sifu, thanks for taking the time to look, and this dry season, I will look for some seed. I only know of one mature tree, and I will have to make a 30 minute drive to observe for seed.

The thorns, on the trimmed branches are small and easily removed. On a normal branch, somewhere around 1" [ 2.5 cm ] are to be expected.

I will show again, when I have a thicker trunk and hopefully a ton of branchlets.
May show you a little one if I can make the time.
Thanks again to All.
Khaimraj

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:40 pm

With leaves and a small one.
I also found my drawing for the fustic, it was supposed to be leaning.
Khaimraj



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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  GerhardGerber on Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:52 pm

You can catch me in a trap baited with green bark!  Very Happy 

Very nice trees, looks like a great species, well done!  Cool 

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Jerry Meislik on Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:36 pm

Khaimraj,
Looking very good and naturalistic.
Jerry

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:54 pm

Thank you Gerhard and Sifu for taking the time to look.

On the original tree.
I would like to offer a word of caution, this one of three test trees, and may not end up as a Bonsai. This stage the tree shows, that it can densify with branchlets and leaves. I have another with tests on the roots and healing of the bark.
As a repeat, next test is thickening the trunk, using an extending branch.

The small one is to see how it all turns out in miniature.

I wanted to see how refined we can get local trees, with under 45 cm [ 18" heights ].

The only tree I know of [ there are many in the forests, but hidden ] in a built up zone [ about an hour away ] has grown as a natural broom, single leader.
I still have to see the seeds or flowers.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  MichaelJ on Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:17 pm

I've looked for this as Old Fustic, Dyer's Mulberry, Maclura tinctoria, can't find it for sale at any nursery in California, or anywhere online. Does anyone know how to find a specimen for sale in the U.S.?

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:37 pm

Michael,

you can import from Puerto Rico and they may have it, they have been doing bonsai longer than us [ Trinidad ].
Also maybe the U.S Virgin islands.
Later.
Khaimraj

* Caution, it looks pretty, but it does have thorns, many folk don't like to work with thorny trees.

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:41 am

http://chalk.richmond.edu/flora-kaxil-kiuic/m/maclura_tinctoria.html

Flowers and Fruit
Khaimraj

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Enrique on Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:01 pm

it is native here in Mexico, I'm growing several for bonsai, but I usually collect big trunks and it takes some time to get them ready for show. But I think it is a great species that has yet to enter well into the world of bonsai. I will try to put some pictures soon.

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  roberttamsar on Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:41 am

I can't see the pict. Front, back, top side 1 and 2> where can i find it. Can you post again?

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:53 pm

Robert,

apologies, I removed my images from the general server for IBC, because my children were showing up on Google, and I thought this was a private to this group situation.
Not happy with my images going world wide for 1/3 of a cent.

When I get some time, I will see if there is a server that does not show up on Google.
Apologies once again.
Khaimraj

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

Post  roberttamsar on Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:16 am

Oh, I see. I am in indonesia (tropic). Just want to see whether i have ever saw the kind. Thanks

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Re: A Tropical version of the Zelkova [ Maclura t. / Chlorophora tinctoria]

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